Treat this as an ugly rumor for now

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Treat this as an ugly rumor for now

Postby Coruscate » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:13 pm

Give it a few days to "steep" and we may find this to be rumor or truth.

If true?

Oh TW is screwed over. Over half the country is female!

Warner's Robinov B***hslaps Film Women; Gloria Allred Calls For Warner's Boycott

This comes to me from three different producers, so I know it's real: Warner Bros president of production Jeff Robinov has made a new decree that "We are no longer doing movies with women in the lead". This Neanderthal thinking comes after both Jodie Foster's The Brave One (even though she's had big recent hits with Flightplan and Panic Room) and Nicole Kidman's The Invasion (as if three different directors didn't have something to do with the awfulness of the gross receipts) under-performed at the box office recently. "Can you imagine when Gloria Allred gets hold of this? It's going to be like World War III," one producer just told me. (I put in a call to Glo, who comments below.) Of course, Warner Bros has always been male-centric in its movies. But now the official policy as expressly articulated by Robinov is that a male has to be the lead of every pic made. I'm told he doesn't even want to see a script with a woman in the primary position (which now is apparently missionary at WB). Oh yeah, the fact that so many Warner Bros movies have been sucking at the box office for the last two years is all the fault of females. (Then again, Robinoff's poorly performing Superman Returns starred a girlie-man.) As regular readers of my own box office reports know, I've noted how chick flicks haven't been doing well at the box office lately. But Robinov's statements aren't about women's movies as a genre, they're anti Hollywood actresses. Besides, neither The Brave One nor The Invasion were classic chick flicks, either. "It's a phenomenal thing to say. What are we in the 1700s where women are back to being barefoot and pregnant?" a producer railed. "What's next -- fire all the Warner Bros women executives?"

UPDATE: Noted women's rights attorney Gloria Allred just gave me this statement in response to what I've posted above: "If that's what he said, when movies with men as the lead fail, no one says we'll stop making movies with men in the lead. This is an insult to all moviegoers and particularly women. It is truly unfortunate that women get blamed for decisions which are made by men. Instead of taking responsibility for their own lack of judgment about which scripts to make, directors to hire and budgets to OK, some men in the movie industry find it easier to place blame for their lack of success on women leads and to exclude talented female actors from the top employment opportunities in Hollywood in favor of macho males. If that studio confirms that their policy is to now exclude women as leads, then my policy would be to boycott films made by Warner Bros."
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Postby Selena Aninikkou » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:24 pm

Hollywood is currently suffering from an outbreak of what I can only describe as "EXTREME stupidity". Bad movies and worse decisions; it's like the management has completely lost touch with THIS reality, and then they wonder why nothing seems to be selling right now...
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Postby Coruscate » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:37 pm

Took the words right out of my mouth...
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Postby Unit Zero » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:29 am

To be fair, what super-hits have had women as leads? I understand that the list to go off of isn't that great, but in this world, it's quite possible that a good movie with a female lead won't sell as well as one with a male lead. Besides which, even if he is wrong, why is it such a horrible thing that this man made this business decision? In Hollywood, the only thing they care about is money, sexism has nothing to do with it. The only reason that he doesn't want to have women leads anymore is because he thinks it will make less money. Anyone who believes (rightly or wrongly) that having a certain gender lead in films will make significantly more money would be a fool to ignore this "fact."
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Postby Mitera Nikkou » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:02 am

I think a part of it has to do with not keeping up with culture and the kind of values that people in general look for in a female lead character. Big, tough, "cool" guys are typical male leads and other guys hardly ever get tired of them, sometimes irregardless of the plot. Resident Evil seems to be a series of movies that's doing okay with a female lead, but that may be in large part because of its genre and the fanbase that it had for the game before the movies. The fanbase aside, its got action and adventure, what's-her-face has a known face (such as from Fifth Element), and she isn't bad to look at. One of the audiences that will be attracted to this are the ladies out there who feel empowerment by seeing a fellow female kicking ass. A large audience of guys dig that, too. ;p The thing about leading guy actors is that, in our culture, they can attract more numbers from both sides of the gender fence. A very large reason for the Titanic's success was because it had grabbed a significantly-large female audience, what with Leonardo bringing in a new age of Beatlemania. ;/ I can only imagine the percentage of ticket purchasers that had seen the movie in the cinemas more than once; I know the females in my household had gone three times. -_- And when the movie came out on DVD... -_-# I can't even think of any movies with leading ladies that had attracted males in such a superficial way... Hrm. In the end I doubt I have much of the right factors in regard to my considerations; I'll just stick to anime, where I know the leading ladies rule supreme. ;p
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Postby Selena Aninikkou » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:55 pm

Unit Zero wrote:To be fair, what super-hits have had women as leads?


The Wizard Of Oz. Alien. The Birds. Carrie. Double Indemnity. Bedknobs & Broomsticks. The Exorcist. Fargo. Want me to keep going?
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Postby Unit Zero » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Wizard of Oz is the only actual super-hit on there. The birds is very famous and a big hit, but not quite a super-hit. Horror movies are a genre which often have female leads by design, and a genre TW doesn't do, so The Exorcist is irrelevant. The rest I've never even heard of. But, like I said, whether or not he's correct doesn't even matter so much as the fact that he thinks he's correct from personal experience. Those two movies were likely the last straw in his decision, not the entire basis for it.

My real issue is that people are acting as though he is being sexist, or as if females won't watch movies with a male lead, and he is therefore making a horrible decision. My post was pretty much in response to this, which others seemed to agree with:

Coruscate wrote:If true?

Oh TW is screwed over. Over half the country is female!


If they aren't being sexist, and we do know for a fact that male leads sell, there is nothing particularly stupid about this decision. It places a limitation on what movies they can produce, but they are still going with the sure thing, which has been a pattern for Hollywood since it was first created.
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Postby Coruscate » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:50 pm

Unit Zero wrote:My real issue is that people are acting as though he is being sexist, or as if females won't watch movies with a male lead, and he is therefore making a horrible decision. My post was pretty much in response to this, which others seemed to agree with:

Coruscate wrote:If true?

Oh TW is screwed over. Over half the country is female!


If they aren't being sexist, and we do know for a fact that male leads sell, there is nothing particularly stupid about this decision. It places a limitation on what movies they can produce, but they are still going with the sure thing, which has been a pattern for Hollywood since it was first created.


If a movie has an interesting idea, a well written story, good acting and cinematography it will sell.

If it has a stupid idea, a poorly written story, bad acting and cinematogrpahy, it won't.

Ultimately TW is just producing bad movies, it mostly originates from the writing, not the acting. To blame the women for being at fault for poorly written movies would be sexist.
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Postby Unit Zero » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:32 am

It's only sexist if it's a value judgment made on bias and not fact. Lets say that I own an ice cream store, and I notice that I generally sell more ice cream when I have an attractive woman working the counter than when a man works it. If I decide to only give the job to attractive women, that isn't sexist, it's good business. Likewise, if having a man in that position sells more ice cream, it would make sense to keep men there. Still common sense.

Now, you're pretty much right. The question is, do the masses get as excited about female leads as male leads? Do female leads sell as well, not do they sell at all. The evidence that this guy has seems to say no, so he made a business decision to go with male leading actors which have always sold and always will sell. If he's wrong, he might lose a little money, but if he's right, he stands to help his studio far more as he's still going with something that will sell.

You're just charging a business decision with unneeded emotion. There's nothing here to be outraged about.
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Postby Xia » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:35 am

There is a flaw in your logic Zero :o

Simply put, there cant be nothing to be outraged about if people are outraged about it. You don't have to have a good reason to be outraged about something, and you can indeed get outraged over a perfectly logical decision.

The restaurant I work for has a strictly female only policy for bartenders, and has an unofficial policy about male hosts (ie, keeping them as far away from the host stand as possible). It revolves around some form of business sense (though I'm so much prettier than the other hosts :o) and it does work to an extent. It still causes unrest though (maybe not outrage, but I don't care about alot of things enough to be outraged about something).

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Postby Coruscate » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:48 am

Unit Zero wrote:You're just charging a business decision with unneeded emotion. There's nothing here to be outraged about.


Zero, I'm pro business.

I've also watched TW's movies drop, drop, drop, drop, drop and drop in quality and sales well over 10 years. This pattern is nothing new and it is connected to lousy business decision making in hiring of script writers and which scripts to produce.

Even my own family thinks most movies stink anymore, and they used to think I was far too critical of Hollywood.

Movie sales have dropped like a brick in ten years. A decade ago they were building multiplexes like mushrooms because the movie industry kept getting "bigger" in money. Then they got way too overconfident with special effects (Waterworld era) and crap stories, now I find multiplexes that can't even get enough movies to show in them.

Is he blaming women unjustly? Hell yes; it's their own fault for thrashing their own profitability.
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Postby Unit Zero » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:13 pm

There's really nothing new to say. He never said that it's women's fault, the writer was convenient enough to add that little bit of spin themselves. If you're going to stop watching TW movies because you fall for a writer trying to turn nothing into a big story, then I feel sorry for you.

And so far as I've seen, movies haven't gotten any worse, if anything they've gotten better. Five years ago, if you asked me what my favorite movie was, I'd have said Star Wars, hands down. These days, there's so much great competition for the title in my mind that I have no idea any more. If you want to point to a slump in movie sales over the past decade, could it be that for most of that decade the economy in general has been in a major slump? Or even because some television programs are of such excellent quality that they are stealing even more of the movies' audience? TV is the number one reason ever that movies have taken a dive in sales, after all.

So far as my actual point, I'd really said all there is to say a couple posts ago, so this will be my last. Although I will point out that everyone that I've shown this article to agrees that it has nothing to do with sexism, and that male leads probably do sell more tickets anyway. Maybe taking a film history class would help you to better understand why they are doing this, although anyone who realized that business=good should understand the point.
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Postby Mitera Nikkou » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:04 pm

I don't think that TW should prohibit all female lead roles in the future, though. I think it'd be good business sense to still use female leads where they've shown to work well. You can't have a romance without one, for instance. ;p And it seems that Resident Evil is doing well enough, too, so... It's one thing to prohibit something where there are many choices to choose from (such as what rating a movie should never surpass), but there are only two kinds of leading roles. I just don't see what could be good with refusing to use the other half of that role's potential. Good business is about keeping something on hand for when it's needed, and it comes at no cost to those at TW to keep actresses in mind for future lead roles. And the ladies won't be upset enough to refuse them because people have trouble not accepting the right price to do something.
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Postby Brnin8r » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:46 pm

Hey! Kinda jumping in late, but I was reading this and it intrigued me and stimulated one of my more common rants that I participate in real life. It might seem a little off track...but we'll just say I think it connects as I type this...if it doesn't at the end...oh well.

This decision of TW's is illogical...but sound. The world of business doesn't revolve around logic anymore, it revolves around money. Like Zero said, it's the money their looking for...and they think they've found it. My personal opinion is that it's retarded to limit your resources like that. To complete delete the prospect of a female lead in a movie doesn't make sense to me. I can understand being hesitant over the action, but completely disregarding an option is something I don't like to do...I like to see what everything reaps.

I think that's what is connected with it...now we go more general.

It's not just the movie industry (and I'm not surprised to see the movie business do this first) The U.S. has lost its ethos and logos (the parts of the brain that determine ethics and logic) I find that the U.S. is a very legal county that's bogged down in the prospect of greed and money. If someone can get someone else's things because of legalities, it almost seems like we all support them. There is a boundary we come to: at what point does tolerance become prison? How far can we go before people snap? Is it logical to not make films with female leads...not very. Is it ethical to not make films with female leads...depends on the country. In our country, its absolutely acceptable because we allow the big corporate offices to decide these things for their company...is it ethical or logical?...that's not the question...the question is can/should we do anything about it?

I don't think we should. I believe we are fully capable of expressing our opinions of it, but we must also realize that it's not our place to forcibly change another's opinions. Do I believe that TW will regret its decision?...I do...but not yet...and I don't think they will soon. When it gets to the revolution where we all try to be completely equal I think we might be seeing TW on shaky ground.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make too much sense...it's very late right now and the screen is tilting a little on its own. If you agree, blink twice. If you don't...I suppose you can do what you want...I'ma go to...bed...

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Postby Cutey Kerina » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:19 pm

Until zapped or zappy leads become common...don't care. Hollywood is so conservative and weird sometimes.
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