Jesus wasn't a Jew

[Lioconvoy]

Look , you are over complicating things by aplying modern theology.Modern beliefs on the hows and wherefors.

When Pilot asks Jesus if he was King of the Jews; Jesus replied, "You have said it." Jesus identified himself as one of them. Whether the word meant what you're implying it to mean now isn't the issue. Jesus was of his father's chosen, which we now call Jews.

[Mitera Nikkou]

If you paid attention, you'd know that I've been trying to apply modern and ancient theology in their appropriate timelines. Ancient belief in ancient times, and modern in modern times. Sure, I'm not good with history, but I know better than to apply modern beliefs/facts to ancient ones. And so far no one has made a valid argument for "Jews" (as a religion) being a valid term before the arrival of Judaism, which didn't take place until hundreds of years after Jesus lived. And until someone does, "Jew" refers to someone from Judea, and Jesus was a Galilean.

Anyway, "you have said it," isn't an affirmation from Jesus. To me, that sounds more like, "if you say so." A perceptional thing. Of course, the gospels have different accounts of that event. Most of them say, "you have said it," or something to that effect. Whereas John illustrates a more interesting answer, having to do with another kingdom altogether, not one of this Earth and, certainly, not of the Jews. He's the Son of God, of course, so what do you expect? Beyond that, with differing accounts about other details, and the fact that the charges brought forth (including Jesus taking over as king of the Jews) were false (since Pilate didn't believe the charges and thus found no fault in Jesus), you'd have to verify Jesus' status as a Jew from elsewhere, if he has indeed called himself one/admitted to being one at any other time.

Finally, consider Jesus' baptism by John the baptist. Seriously. Even though there are differing accounts about that event, too.

[Kether]

Haylie:

Yeah, I know. But a nationality isn't a religion, and I'm making sure that the two concepts remain separate. Back then Israelites were Israelites (as far as I know), not Jews. Jesus was from Galilee, not Judea or Israel. You can't call someone a Jew, in the religious sense, just because they come from a predominantly Jewish nation. Lio's just being his usual, silly self.

Lian:

That's a good point, and I'm glad it works for my argument. I mean, the orthodoxy hadn't been established until hundreds of years after Jesus' death, and all of the material written (in or out of any official bible) had not been from Jesus himself.

the Torah had been estabilished before this however, Jesus would have been considered a practioner of Judaism at the time of his life though probably a heretical one.

[Mitera Nikkou]

Again, Judaism hadn't formed during Jesus' time. (Well, as far as I can tell... I can't find anything official, anyway. <_<; ) There were the pharisees, sadducees and essenes, but I don't think there were rabbis (in the religious sense, rather than strictly as a teacher) while Jesus lived. Or, at least, I haven't been able to find anything that suggests that they did. I mean, I don't remember "rabbi" being mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures (old testament), and any mention of Rabbi in the New testament had been written after Jesus' death, so...

Where's Christina when I need her... Was it Christina? I can't remember. Y.Y

[Lioconvoy]

the Torah had been estabilished before this however, Jesus would have been considered a practioner of Judaism at the time of his life though probably a heretical one.

They gave him over to the Romans for Blasphamy, so yeah he was consideder a heretic by the church.

Nikkou, you're the one being silly. You're playing with too many facts that don't even really apply.

[Mitera Nikkou]

What facts don't apply?

[Sophia Anieri]

When Pilot asks Jesus if he was King of the Jews; Jesus replied, "You have said it."[/color]

I do not think that it means what you think it means.

[Flannery]

You're still missing the point. How can Jesus be a "Jew" if he didn't teach what the other "Jews" did? ;p

Then what do other people of the Jewish faith teach then?

Jesus was also the Son of God. He would them be half Jewish then.

[Mitera Nikkou]

Then what do other people of the Jewish faith teach then?

Not what Jesus taught at the time, obviously. ;p

Jesus was also the Son of God. He would them be half Jewish then.

So you're saying that God is half Jewish, or has a wife/mistress that wasn't a Jew?

But I think I know what you mean. And if I do, then think about this: Gods people were the Israelites, not the Jews. The Israelites followed Mosaic law, which one could compare to Christianity in that both were derived from two main figures: Christ, for Christianity; and Moses, for the Mosaic law.

I still haven't seen any evidence of the Jewish faith existing before or during Jesus' time.

[Flannery]

The Jewish faith believes in the old testament only. Judaism influenced Christianity and Islam.

Here is a brief history:

Jews were first known as Hebrews. With Abraham, being the father of the religion. God blessed him with other a 100 children. (Poor mother) Abraham also had two first born sons. Ishmael and Isaac. He took one of his sons to the top of to be sacrificed to god. (Which brings us to the separation of Islam and Christianity, depending on which son he sacrificed.) Abraham would then inherit the Land of Israel (then called Canaan), after having been exiled and redeemed. The Hebrews were then called Israelites. After generations of Abraham's children, they were enslaved by the Egyptians. The Egyptians coin the term Jews, If my memory serves me well. Moses was commanded by god to free the slaves and guide them back to the land of Israel. (This is around 1300 years before Jesus.) Moses then received the 10 commandment on top of Mt. Sinai, and where also the book of moses was written (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.)

[Mitera Nikkou]

I don't know about the Egyptians calling them that. I'm almost certain they're never referred to as Jews in the first five books, which includes the exodus from Egypt.

Hebrews are known as the ancestors of the Israelites, who used the hebrew language. Israelites were the writers of the Hebrew Bible and therefore the spiritual and historical forerunners of the Jews, Christians and Muslims.

Note the word in bold.

Basically, people use the word "Jew" rather indiscriminately these days, as a sort of catch-all term for all periods surrounding either the ancestry or the faith. And then add to the fact that anything written about Jesus followed his death by some time, rather than during his time, and it's evident that in between the sects that followed the Mosaic law were falling apart. So, by the time that Jesus is referred to as a Jew or rabbi, the meanings may or may not have changed. For instance, "rabbi" may not have been an official title for a person of a certain station in a religious faith, and may have still been a simple word in Jesus' time. And, again, there wasn't a Judaism (as far as I can tell) before or after Jesus' time, so the perception of him being one could be skewed by the writers many years afterward. Or, seeing as Herod ruled Judea, and thus the Jews, Jesus was called a Jew only because Herod feared that Jesus would replace him as ruler, which would, then, make him "king of the Jews." Otherwise he was a Galilean.

[Xia]

Wait, Jesus cant be a Jew because he didn't teach what other "Jews" did?

If Jesus just toed the party line, there wouldn't have been a new religion born.

I'm christian, but I definately don't preach christianity.

[Mitera Nikkou]

Well, what sense would it make for someone to preach a faith they themselves didn't believe in/follow? And what he taught was different enough to become a whole new religion with its own sects, rather than a sect of the Hebrew faith (of the time) or Judaism. And he certainly wasn't accepted by the "jews", since at least one sect (that I'm aware of being mentioned), the pharisees, were against Jesus. Which is understandable since Jesus spoke out against them.

But, by "don't preach", you could mean that you either do preach, just not Christianity, or you don't preach Christianity because you don't preach at all. Either way, I don't see what point you're trying to make. While it could seem that what you say sounds like an argument, it also sounds like an agreement. Weirdo. ;/