Magical Sailor Fuku

You'll see me throw around the term "sexism" often. I notice some people react as if I called them misogynistic. They're different things, though. Sexism is stereotyping or grouping individuals overly by a set of behaviors or assumptions regarding those behaviors. An example is an uncle buying a doll for a niece he hardly knows because girls her age like dolls. It's not an unreasonable conclusion if she's young enough, but it's based on a sexist assumption nonetheless. This isn't to say people don't ever act in a stereotypical way. It also doesn't that mean that one can't write a character with stereotypical interests, or even have those interests overtake someone as part of their transformation, but merely recognize that individuals of that sex don't necessarily have those traits inherently .

Misogynism by contrast is portraying the female sex as inherently disempowered, shameful, or inferior. A lot of older captions on the site actually were guilty of this. We don't see it as much anymore, thankfully, but there was the time.

TG communities in general fall towards a strong trend of sexism or misogynism if it isn't called on. I think the presence (but not exaltification, if I may make up a word on the spot) of "actual" female individuals such as Kerina and Musaluc went a long way towards improvement of quality.

Here is a good example of a caption that could have very easily slipped into sexism or even misogynism, but was worded just right so it doesn't (note the description of the marriage or situation as "traditional", for instance, implying that this is old fashioned thinking). It walks a precarious edge, but it's an example of how far one can push the envelope even if one is trying to be aware of sexism.

A lot of the person's captions follow suit on that note, coming as close as possible to that edge without actually cleanly crossing the line (though some do and would have provoked a comment from me on a forum). Though given other captions, he or she seems aware of it and pokes fun at their own style.

Its a sticky subject.

Misogynistic? Big no no.

Sexist as per your definition (which is a darned good one): Needs to be looked at case by case. I sincerely doubt that most artists here (if indeed any of them) intend it to be negative or to reinforce the same stereotypes. However, this is a creation of pure fantasy. And some people take that to the far edge and push it beyond what would be considered to be in good taste in certain circles.

Take me for instance: I roleplay a ditzy girl half the time. There aren't many women like that, but its a fun character to assume.

Having more well rounded female characters? That's always a good thing. But when it comes down to interfering with someone's otherwise non-destructive fantasies? That's where it gets sticky.

But sometimes the fantasies don't /stay/ fantasies. For example, there are people I've encountered outside of the writing and RPing who seemed to honestly believe things such as that all women have better, happier, more fun lives than men, simply because they're female. When I try to explain why that logic is terribly false, they don't seem interested in listening. >_>;

Now that is dangerous Musa. Although I can see how it could happen. Your own problems or perceived problems become so thick and dense you can't see the truth anymore and search for any way out.

What I wonder is which is worse: men thinking that girls have it better, or men that think in the same vein as those that have led females to being less than equal for thousands of years. I can't say for sure, but maybe it's better to exalt the opposite sex, from both sides, than attacking them. I figure that any positive notion could be better. The problem is that everyone sees things differently so the form that the positive notion takes will likely be the cause for someone to not see it as a positive notion and, instead, see it as negative.

People are so silly. ;/

Crimson Noble wrote:What I wonder is which is worse: men thinking that girls have it better, or men that think in the same vein as those that have led females to being less than equal for thousands of years. I can't say for sure, but maybe it's better to exalt the opposite sex, from both sides, than attacking them. I figure that any positive notion could be better. The problem is that everyone sees things differently so the form that the positive notion takes will likely be the cause for someone to not see it as a positive notion and, instead, see it as negative.

People are so silly. ;/

On the flipside, there's now women who have decided that alllll men are the idiotic scum of the earth and should bow down and lick their shoes, which is no better than the kind of men who act that way about women.

I believe both sides should embrace each other in equality and acceptance~! Some friendly teasing and competition sometimes is okay, but no more of this hatred! :O *FIST SHAKE* POWER TO THE EQUALITYYYY!

... *Cough* Deraaaaiiiil. *Picks up the Topic Train and sets it back on its tracks*

So, uh. Yeah. Captions. XD Things like stereotyping n' stuff can be used in ways that is amusing, or that can be explained by things such as a "traditional household" (and god am I glad I wasn't raised in one @__x), but I think it is a good idea to make sure the sexism is kept in check and doesn't go /too/ far. So that it stays as fantasy or silliness, and does not evolve into something quite bad. ^^; And, you know, to make sure people understand the difference between reality and fantasy.

One thing to keep in mind, I would think any setup that reasonably allows someone to transform into the other gender.. or a robot or whatever could quite possibly allow things that force a certain stereotyped or fetishistic roles, something that would readily be a punishment or act of cruelty even if its not a generic truth of the gender.

Sexism cannot be escaped. Unfortunately, as we are a mostly oocly male group, most of us can't fully wrap our mind around the concept of being the other gender.

We fall back on ideas that we know, and have been enforced. Now, this isn't to say the sexist idea, isn't something enjoyed by an individual, but it cannot be spoken to for the whole.

Most of us do this, if we know it or not. A lot of the giggly idea, is honestly based on sexism. It's mostly, just something we do at reflex.

Then there's musa, who's deliciousness knows no gender. Who skews the line just right enough.

Duck wrote:Then there's musa, who's deliciousness knows no gender. Who skews the line just right enough.

*Is like a delicious androgynous genderqueer twice-baked POTATO! With cheese! :O*

I've noticed this as well. Just like I've also noticed tendencies such as assuming that the moment you turn female, you get boycrazy and into cute girlie clothes and so forth. Or talking like a valley girl or something.... **shudder** I've tried to explain that these are not inherent things, they're born of social conditioning. But to no avail. The people who do this seem to think being female is to be one specific way, and they don't seem to want to listen to someone who is in fact the exception to all their assumed "rules."

Musashi wrote:But sometimes the fantasies don't /stay/ fantasies. For example, there are people I've encountered outside of the writing and RPing who seemed to honestly believe things such as that all women have better, happier, more fun lives than men, simply because they're female. When I try to explain why that logic is terribly false, they don't seem interested in listening. >_>;

Guendolen wrote:I've noticed this as well. Just like I've also noticed tendencies such as assuming that the moment you turn female, you get boycrazy and into cute girlie clothes and so forth. Or talking like a valley girl or something.... **shudder** I've tried to explain that these are not inherent things, they're born of social conditioning. But to no avail. The people who do this seem to think being female is to be one specific way, and they don't seem to want to listen to someone who is in fact the exception to all their assumed "rules."

Personally I'd assume that would be based on a subset of the spell/technology/etc of the transformation to force someone into a particular role to create certain instincts..

Not always, though. In fact, I've noticed that even though the change is simply a physical one, certain people just adopt these behaviors automatically. They're not intended to be inherent, but they treat it as though it is; that this is the way females are "supposed" to behave, and will do so by dint of just having that anatomical structure. I've tried to explain that this is not the case, but it doesn't sink in....

Guendolen wrote:Not always, though. In fact, I've noticed that even though the change is simply a physical one, certain people just adopt these behaviors automatically. They're not intended to be inherent, but they treat it as though it is; that this is the way females are "supposed" to behave, and will do so by dint of just having that anatomical structure. I've tried to explain that this is not the case, but it doesn't sink in....

Well that is Sexist...

Now mind you those people might actually act that way because of conditioning in the real world...

TG is just that -- transforming into a new gender role, or transporting oneself into it.

The problem, and part of the root of a lot of unintentional sexism, is that not everyone agrees on what a gender role fully is or what it encompasses. To what degree it affects one's identity, clothing and behavior -- as well as sexual implications.

It emboldens me to see the forum's genetic girls speaking up, as I feel kind of awkward taking this stance without actually counting as a girl myself. So thank you!