Inspired by the bible, inspired by God... *Coughs*

[Mitera Nikkou]

I've been delving into the bible lately, a King James version, and I suddenly realized, with my trouble to understand what in the Hell it's saying so often, that a lot of the bad writers, that I come across out there, could possibly be a result of them being inspired by the bible. I mean, dialogue without quotes? I understand that the bible has been translated from both the original language as well as other languages in the region, but I expect proper grammar when it's written in English.

The Olde English is one thing, but the excessive use of semi-colons and colons makes me wonder if all of the butt-pirating priests are a result of being bombarded by so many colons in their reading of the bible.

Sorry, I couldn't help making that joke. I take every opportunity I get. ;/

Seriously, though... It does make me wonder. It's hard for me to imagine someone coming out of school who writes as badly as those who had written the King James bible. Even I, with only one (somewhat) significant English class behind me (aside from the primary lessons learned in the beginning years of school), have managed to come out a decent writer: I'm not a professional, but I can convey well enough.

Although, honestly, some of my confusion over what's going on in the bible might be attributed to what I'm wondering about here. One part I read about was when David conducted a census, and how even he saw himself as a sinner afterward and God gave him three choices as punishment. Not upon him, but upon the innocent people of Israel. And thus... What was it... Seventy-thousand of the Israelites were killed by a plague?

David Letterman: "What?"

No wonder the world is so screwed up, with such screwy writing as this around. -_-

[Selena Aninikkou]

Two thousand years of writing-by-committee, ulterior motives, and desire to control people...

[Mitera Nikkou]

Perhaps, but still... I mean, of the two accounts that I know of, about David making a census, in one of them God is the one that instructs David to do so. It's simply baffling just what sort of logic is being used. I read the verses several times over and my understanding (or lack thereof) failed to improve.

The chapter in question.

[SweetSophia]

Ay, there's the rub. Whether Christian or not, between missed cultural and lingual inflections, translation, retranslations, interpretations, censorship, lost chapters and the fact that the book is written "through" several people throughout history who we have to take the Church's word that they heard the voice of God, make it not always the easiest book to understand. And unfortunately that leaves thing open to more interpretation and mistranslation.

I maintain my belief that the only true word of God you can get comes from the big man himself. I haven't hear him chatting me up myself, but I have several creepy witness stories of people, relatives and friends knowing things they shouldn't and getting their information allegedly from God.

If only God could hook back up with his publishers and release a sequel. Or a tell all confessional about the folks who did the first one.

[Mitera Nikkou]

Right. At the very least the medium, whether they're God's words or not, is a real mess. I really don't know how so many people are comfortable when they get behind the bible, because I certainly don't understand it, and I'd play it safe and support only what I understood, not what others translate for me.

For instance, Christianity uses the Hebrew scriptures (that's the "old testament, by the bye) as a basis for their religion. Satan is a very different concept throughout most of the Hebrew scriptures, but new testament scriptures interject their version of Satan into places where the concepts just don't match. It's like the Hebrew scriptures are supposed to be accepted, and yet so many choice ideas are to be ignored and have others transposed in their place.

So I definitely agree with you when it comes to the true word. I mean, sure, you can say that the bible was inspired by God, but that could just as well mean that it was the idea of a God in someone's mind rather than an actual God that makes contact. It bellies the sort of logic that I find behind a lot of bad plots. It's the sort of thing you can find with Mary Sue's, where you glorify a characterization of yourself, or some other thing that is an idealization of something on a personal level, and that's what the plot revolves around.

I don't think God needs another book, though. At best whoever writes down what He says will probably reflect the person's own ideas of how to glorify and express His words, so... If you want to be with God, simply pray and keep Him in your heart. Daniel did it, so why not? Cut out the middle book, so to speak. And privatization is all the rage. ;p

[Just some lady]

Seeeeee~? That's why I read this bible!
....
^_^ It makes much more sense! <3

[Knight Errant]

I love the Old Testament to death...

Really, I do... I have read the whole thing about three times.

It gave me such an insight on human nature... especially with the Isrealites.

They get delivered out of Egypt by ten plagues, saved from armies, given supernatural food and water in the desert(or is it dessert? :p)... but if God turned his head for one second they were off worshiping golden calfs.

Then he smites them with plagues.

I love the smiteing that goes on... its the best. ^_^

Oh, and whoever started the lolspeak translation of the Bible is going to burn in hell. *nods*

[Mitera Nikkou]

Oh, and whoever started the lolspeak translation of the Bible is going to burn in hell. *nods*

I'm sure they were already swallowed up by Ceiling Cat's great maw. <_<

I kind of consider the Hebrew scriptures to be a sort of comedy. The beginning is just nonsensical, and the rest is slapstick and gags. Take, for instance, God's stance in the beginning: once things got bad enough, he wanted to wipe humanity clean from the face of the Earth. However, once the Israelites escaped from Egypt, God's people became a kind of Beaver (of the Leave it to Beaver variety). It's like they have no learning curve, and they have to make a mistake to learn anything. Maybe. Moses is usually the one that has to talk sense into God, to prevent him from going on a rampage each time. And the people of Israel keep on questioning God no matter how many times, and no matter how many creative methods, He chooses to smite them. Although they shouldn't have complained about finding the promised land in the first place since (I think) they were aware of being punished to wander in the wilderness for forty years.

It's just bad writing, all around. If not for its religious background I don't think any publisher would publish anything similar in quality to the bible, what with all of the contradictions, plot holes, omissions, and the fact that half of it (or most, depending on how you look at it) is some form of plagiarism.

I just simply can't take it seriously. ^^;

[Selena Aninikkou]

lost chapters

Well, it's VERY important to note that now, over 1600 years after-the-fact, we're now turning up evidence that the Roman Catholic Church had entire sections of the Holy Bible thrown out because it didn't match their world-view in 400 AD...

They make a joke about gender bias in the Bible in the movie "Dogma" (it's part of the View Askew universe), but seriously, the Bible was originally much more gender-neutral, and evidence shows that the men running the Catholic Church around 400 AD decided to use the Holy Bible to push the whole "men are better than women" viewpoint on the planet. So a bunch of chapters detailing certain good works about certain women that were in the original Bible simply got cut out, leaving a book that, well... can you name an instance of a woman in the Bible doing something GOOD?

[Mitera Nikkou]

Depends on your definition of good. Although they were depicted in the Hebrew scriptures, both Ruth and Esther could be considered good, since they were portrayed in a good light. But, really, later Hebrew scriptures pretty much show the transition of thought into those we most commonly see in the New Testament.

But the whole listing of books that were in the bible is a bit complex. The bible first put together by the Christian church became orthodox and, as far as I know, the books included were never changed. Depending on the region, however, bibles produced in said region could (and did) deviate, including many books that the orthodox church not only did not include, but branded as heretical. The Qur'an is pretty much an adaption of the Christian bible (I suppose), which does include some of the books that the orthodox church left out. Other than that, before all that there were a number of sects vying for influence with various ideas, which resulted in all kinds of books. What became orthodox was the sect that won out over the others, which then stamped the others out and took in any books that agreed with the message of said sect.

That's about as good as my memory serves, anyway. I wouldn't trust it all that much. History's not one of my strong points. ;/

[Selena Aninikkou]

No, you're right. But all that occured before 320 AD, because when Constantine became Emperor of Rome, he used his empire to stamp out most brands of Christianity that weren't connected to the Roman Catholic Church, which is where what I mentioned occurred; since the RCC gained de-facto control of Christianity, they were free to make any changes they saw fit, and no one could argue with them because they had the full force of the Roman Empire backing them at that time. As a result, a lot of different sections got clipped, and we only know about some of them NOW because the scholars from that time hid the scrolls containing the info in various places around what is now Israel, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. Like, for example, the Dead Sea Scrolls...

[Knight Errant]

Yes... the "editing" of the Bible is something conspiracy theorists love to point at and taunt: "Neener neener! Your holy scripture has been changed! Weep at your false faith!"

The thing was, books and writing were something very rare in the past... So almost no where was a compilation of the Bible in its entirety... A church might have a book or two, thats it.

Also add to the fact that Christianity was not mainstream for a LONG time... leaving the door wide open to some very strange almost cult-like churches... with their own books of the Bible supporting their ideals.

What we have now, with the current version, is something a bunch of men came together and pieced together from all the different areas. Looking through the denominations and weeding out the books of the Bible that seemed dubious in their origin(like the one in which Jesus flew around and smote people with thunderbolts). It was funded, and the end result was freshly minted full copies of the Bible that were distributed to the main churches.

How can I know that they got it right? Well thats simple... if the Bible is God's divine scripture, then he would have inspired yon rich council members to get it right when wielding the editor's hammer. And you can bet that they were careful in their selections... its not every day you sit down to put together something like this.

Of course that takes faith... but hell! I believe man was created from dirt, and woman from a man's rib. I believe the universe was created in six days by an omnipotent, omnipresent being with a really odd sense of humor. I believe the world was covered by water, and the only ones who escaped death were a family given divine blueprints on how to build a ship... and two of every animal on the planet.

Compared to that, this is nothing.

So in the end, it really isnt a big deal... just something people like to harp about because it looks like a "dirty little secret" about one of the most influential religions in the world.

[Mitera Nikkou]

Oh, I could point out plenty of discrepancies. Such as the fact that the bible has a bunch of stories that predated even Judaism by hundreds (and as much as a thousand) years. That includes the garden of Eden and the great flood that you mentioned.

if the Bible is God's divine scripture, then he would have inspired yon rich council members to get it right when wielding the editor's hammer.

I had a hard time suppressing my laughter when I read this. Right... Those sound like the perfect people to appoint, who are rich and influential and no doubt full of sin.

I would have had a better chance of believing something like that if said people inspired by God had been non-rich and non-special (in the eyes of others) at the time. Say, like... David? Moses? The former guarded his father's (the king's) sheep, while the other became a shepherd.

And you can bet that they were careful in their selections...

Despite their agenda, they weren't careful enough. Heh, heh, heh.

I believe the universe was created in six days by an omnipotent, omnipresent being

The whole cosmos in six, but two stone tablets in forty. <_<;

with a really odd sense of humor

I don't think humor has anything to do with it. He thinks and acts just like a human corrupted by power. The son, that the New Testament claims that the Hebrew God has, is in no way like him. You'd think he'd be like his father, because God is the perfect example of the supreme being, and yet he's far from it. Better for it, but the Christian bible takes the Hebrew scriptures as its foundation and simply uses it and interprets it however it wants (such as claiming that the serpent in the garden of Eden was Satan, or used by Satan, when that was not the case at all).

and two of every animal on the planet

The measurements of the ark is right there in the bible. There's no way two of every animal could fit in there. Probably just the ones that were considered important by the people in the known region. Basically, if the whole world had been flooded, we'd have a lot less species today (especially if there's no evolution and/or if the age of the world is only a few thousand years old). Other than that, there's just not enough water to cover the Earth, much less mount Ararat. And it wouldn't make sense for God to kill creatures that he had created, which had not done anything to offend him (this is because of the humans and the angels that took human women and bore giants). Like, say... the dinosaurs? And all animals in general. Just think about it for a moment. God was able to swallow up specific families into the Earth, and destroy specific cities from the sky, so why destroy everything because of a small population of humans in a select area?

To have faith is fine, but I hope you're thinking rationally about it. Because Christianity has trouble dealing with rational and critical thinking.

just something people like to harp about because it looks like a "dirty little secret" about one of the most influential religions in the world.

That's an irrational rationalization often used to defend something that can't be defended, and offers no real explanation for why people harp in the first place. Believe me, there is reason to harp, and not just because it's one of the most influential religions in the world. It's so much more than that. One of the most influential things in my life is when I have to visit the porcelain God, because I need to adjust my schedule to take care of my bodily waste. That doesn't make it holy shit, does it? ;p

But in the case that your comment was just a way of showing your pride for a popular religion that you happen to be in, the bible has something to say about that: pride before a fall.

But, most of all, be sure that you're thinking for yourself. I can't tell you how to live your life, and I won't, but I highly suggest it.

[Knight Errant]

Hehehe... your post is alot more serious than mine was.

If I took the time and the care I could carefully construct a defense... but the plain and simple is that I really dont want to be caught up in a debate.

The fact that I can talk easily about it is that I am at peace with it. I know that what I believe is most likely right, and if it isnt it really wont matter at all.

Maybe God is like us... we were created in his image. Maybe we are just toys he made to amuse himself... Sometimes I wonder...

But the end fact is that I believe he did make us, and picking apart the details will do nothing to help, really... He deserves worship in the same way an artist deserves praise for a painting. He made the universe... we had better damn well kiss ass.

But if there is no God, then what? Can you honestly tell me that any life without faith has hope?

You die then you dont exist... that means that all there is is this corrupt, dieing, stupid world. Yeah, sure... THATS something I want to believe.

Darnit, you made me get all serious. Curse you! *smite!* XD

[Helel]

The founder/reformer of MY religion has bobblehead dolls made of him. Awesome, yes?

And that is a totally serious reply. I joke you not.

And you won't have to be smited about 500 times, or worry about cultural bias or any of that stuff in the bible either.