Magical Sailor Fuku

This is a pretty straight-forward poll.

I think it's Santa Claus. It's my opinion that they should find Jesus' real birth date and change Christmas, on the twenty-fifth, to St. Nicholas Day.

The trouble there is that St. Nicholas' day already exists; it's on December 6. Germanic and Eastern European cultures tend to do more to celebrate that festival than we do in America, as a rule. The reason Christmas was originally settled on the date it is now is because that date originally coincided with the festival of the ancient deity Mithras, and his supposed birthdate; when Christianity was spreading, the older festival got grafted on in order to get people to transition from the old way to the new.

Well, darn. I didn't know that there was already a St. Nicholas' Day. Man, America seems to get ever the more dumber each time I decide to gauge its collective intelligence. ;/ No offense to ya'll, 'course... *Hiccup!* Ya be gerd MSFers, yer hair?

Some Germanic countries. The rather large percentage of all Germanic countries that are to the north of Germany doesn't celebrate St. Nickolas day. In fact i think that of all Germanic countries it is only Germany and the Netherlands that does.

As for the original question I'll go with Jesus overall. After all most Christians live in the third world these days, given the very high percentage of European people who are solidly and completely agnostic, and in those regions religion tends to matter more than in richer societies. Also it is worth noticing that Santa Claus is a fairly minor character in Europe. I mean he is in a few Christmas stories and a few songs and several commercials, but nobody takes him seriously nor is there the whole game of pretending that he gives the presents to children going on. And quite a few countries have their own versions of who comes with presents, for when they do decide to play those silly little games.

_IF_ I remember this correctly, and my knowledge is second-hand at best, Jesus' birthday has been calculated in spring, mid-april, I think.

The romans moved the date to the 25th to keep with their own system of deities, in order to have it coincide with the Sun God...or something to that effect.

And remember kids, this is all second-hand....which means it's like Wikipedia, only personal!.....or what Guen said, I'm don't even know anymore. ^_^;;

...and I voted Santa, btw.

I'll say Santa since I happen to know both sets of facts Mets and Guen have mentioned as well as the habit of avoiding any sort of religious connotations with holiday greetings anymore. I mean if they are going to remove the word Christ from Christmas by calling it X-mas everywhere then we might as well admit he is basically not even being considered. I thought it was June though, but its been years since I heard when they managed to place the date of the astrological event that was supposed to signify it. Lets not forget its also the 25 so its close to the general Solstice celebrations of a lot of old pagan cultures as well as just around the time of Chanukkah to top it off as an optimal time to celebrate it.

Actually, it's more likely Jesus was born in the spring anyway, so I'd say Santa. You don't see too many department store Jesus' in the mall, do you?

You do know that you don't see department store Santas outside North America, right? Seriously, like i said before, nobody over here gives a damn about Santa. He is a somewhat tacky figure used in commercials and that is it. Also i fail to see the relevance of when Jesus was born for this topic. The important thing is not when he was born, nor where or by whom. What is important is that the rituals about him being born happen during the night between the 24th and the 25th of December. That is when he gets attention for his birth and that is in fact what people focus on for Christmas in the third world and unlike Santa he is a central aspect of Christmas for even the most secular people in Europe. Really you pretty much have to be a fanatic communist here to not give Jesus some attention if you celebrate Christmas here.

Really Santa is pretty much just an American figure and by no means an international element of Christmas. Jesus on the other hand is very much an international figure, especially at Christmas time where even quite a few atheists will celebrate him. Also it is worth noting that Jesus is a major prophet in Islam and though Muslims do not actually celebrate Christmas i think it is a fair bet to expect more of them to pay attention to Jesus than to some fat man dressed in red who symbolizes a holiday they don't celebrate.

Well, I was kind of thinking of America for this poll... I probably should have been more specific. XD You silly foreigners! Well, maybe not too silly... At least many countries in Europe haven't fluorinated their water yet. As far as I can tell, anyway.

But that's neither here nor there. Of course, I think Santa only gets so much attention in America because of the corporate dynamo that's been attached. I mean, so many people go out and get decorations, trees, presents, candy... In the name of Santa. Oh, there's a baby out there in the cold? Who knew? XD

Oh, we get ornaments and food and candy and presents as well, Santa just isn't very involved in the whole thing. And most countries are dirt poor and half-way disintegrating, so i doubt they will be able to undertake something as major as fluoridating the water even if they wanted.

I picked the third option as I'm a fan of la Bafana the Italian Witch. I mean Baby Jesus and Santa have enough attention on Christmas as it is. Both are cultural icons of the holiday [even if some folk put the Baby Jesus in the Nativity scene only after Christmas Eve while others try to ignore him altogether...] and both have their own songs and television specials but does anybody ever remember La Bafana? I mean sure Santa fills oversized socks but La Bafana fills your shoes not to mention sweeps the floor. Does Santa help around the house? I think not. And as cool and amazing as Baby Jesus is, being an infant kind of sets limits.

Well i think that Italian people remember her...She seems to be enough of a unique Italian character to be preserved as an icon of the nation if nothing else.

Metroidvania wrote:_IF_ I remember this correctly, and my knowledge is second-hand at best, Jesus' birthday has been calculated in spring, mid-april, I think.

The romans moved the date to the 25th to keep with their own system of deities, in order to have it coincide with the Sun God...or something to that effect.

You're right on the this point, in that Jesus' b-day was figured to be in the spring as opposed to the early winter as is celebrated now. Regardless, it was a move of the Romans/Christian that in order to attract the pagans that still celebrated the holiday "Saturnalia" (it was basically a giant orgy in honor of the Roman deity Saturn, that lasted a week or so... obviously the whole orgy thing was done away with) to convert new followers by means of moving/establishing Christmas in that ballpark of the year as opposed to in the Spring around the same time as Easter.

Wee for Latin/World History-ness back in high school.

Regardless, I'm going to abstain from voting for now and take a bit to think about who gets the most love around that time. Santa is kinda downplayed around here, at least at my age.

You learned about Roman celebrations in world history, Helel? Seems like a rather minor point to look at when the whole sweep of the history of the globe is to be told.

It only came up when we were covering the Roman Empire and about two thirds of the class was Latin Students. The Latin Program was ginormous and practically a cult, and we took the opportunity to discuss it whenever we could. That and it came up with the establishment of the church, the various factors attributed to it's success, etc.