A mother we can all respect ^_^

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A mother we can all respect ^_^

Postby Coruscate » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:32 am

Seriously.

Washington Post

Boy Booked for Opening Christmas Present

By SEANNA ADCOX
The Associated Press
Tuesday, December 5, 2006; 9:52 PM



COLUMBIA, S.C. -- A fed-up mother had her 12-year-old son arrested for allegedly rummaging through his great-grandmother's things and playing with his Christmas present early.

The mother called police Sunday after learning her son had disobeyed orders and repeatedly taken a Game Boy from its hiding place at his great-grandmother's house next door and played it. He was arrested on petty larceny charges, taken to the police station in handcuffs and held until his mother picked him up after church.

"My grandmother went out of her way to lay away a toy and paid on this thing for months," said the boy's mother, Brandi Ervin. "It was only to teach my son a lesson. He's been going through life doing things ... and getting away with it."

Police did not release the boy's name.

The mother said that her son was found in the last year to have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but that his medicine does not seem to help.

She said he faces an expulsion hearing at his school Wednesday. Rock Hill Police Capt. Mark Bollinger said the boy took a swing at a police officer assigned to the school last month. He has been suspended from school since then.

The boy's case will be presented to Department of Juvenile Justice officials in York County, who will decide what happens to him, Bollinger said. His mother hopes he can attend a program that will finally scare him straight.

"It's not even about the Christmas present," she said. "I only want positive things out of it. ... There's no need for him to act this way. I'd rather call myself than someone else call for him doing something worse than this."
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Postby Christina Anikari » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:04 pm

I saw this yesterday. I really must say that i have a hard time understanding what the hell was going through that mother's head and what kind of messed up family life that led to something like that. It sounds even crazier that my little sister's boyfriend's family and his mother is let's his little brother punch whoever he feels like without as much as saying that he shouldn't.
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Postby Temet nosce » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:56 pm

I'm just going to consider this more evidence that having children should be a privilege not a right. Some people simply shouldn't be parents.
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Postby May-chan » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:29 pm

I too saw this yesterday and when I started reading it I thought it was some idiot mother but by the time I finished and had all the facts I think she is right in a sense. It was not so much because of the present, but because the child was well on his way to delinquency and she felt that he needed a little scaring straight to avoid seriously getting thrown in jail sometime in the future. If it was just some kid who is generally good but then stole the present from his grandmother early it would be a different story, but this was more like the child was doing reckless things and the bad behavior that one day was a catalyst to decide to show the kid "If you are out of control and commiting petty theft and assaulting liason officers at school, this is where you will wind up. Only it won't be for such a short time..."
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Postby Christina Anikari » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:07 pm

I really doubt that anything like this will scare the kid away from that kind of behaviour. If anything it will just make family life more dysfunctional and instead make him more likely to perform that kind of behaviour again. Also it is worth remembering that this didn't come out of the blue and that it is extremely unlikely that a kid would get that out of control without really, really bad parenting or a really horrible environment around the child in some other way. And as such the mother most likely handled it quite poorly before calling the police and has made a thorough mess of the way she raised the kid. I can of course not tell based on the information available, but all sociology indicates that it must be like that. Kids don't get out of control without some kind of factor triggering it and that can usually be traced back to the family.
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Postby Coruscate » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:09 pm

Kids can also get totally out of control when they are taught the law and morals don't matter when they are little. They use the freedom from morals they find to play at being criminal. By playing they learn how to become good at it, whether they intended to or not. Some get hooked and become criminals, some really skilled ones, others lousy ones who get caught early.

I've read articles and seen video of what is going on in Britain with their kids and how out of control they have become. <i>Discipline has to be taught,</i> even if some people are uncomfortable with. A young mind will question their morals and test their reality, it's a common thing. If children are not taught to respect morals, they won't believe in the need for morality and will go as astray as they desire. For some, not far, but for others, well into felony territory.

Parents must teach their children morals and respect for civility so that when they become adults they are moral and civil. Parenting is preparing a child to become adult right?

She took a kid who thought he'd never get slapped for his shit and showed him what kind of world awaited for him when he gets older and tries the same crap. If he chooses to become more immoral than this, then he has no one to blame for his miserable end because he was shown early on what kind of punishment awaits criminals. This has a good chance of setting him right. My conservative friend believes corporal punishment would better do the trick, I think it could have a similar effect, but this is more startling. The kid won't forget this. And considering "liberals" and "left" object to corporal punishment and are all for educating children on the results of crime (right?????) I don't see why any can truly ojbect to this.

To do what he did he needed to learn to lie. To sneak quietly. To open doors quietly. To open and reseal a package leaving no evidence. Well he obviously screwed up on one of those things. He has two options of thinking "I won't get caught next time" or "that is too risky I won't do anything like that again."

His choice determines his future as an adult.
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Postby Chibi MitchellTF » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:30 pm

Lizard Queen wrote:Kids can also get totally out of control when they are taught the law and morals don't matter when they are little. They use the freedom from morals they find to play at being criminal. By playing they learn how to become good at it, whether they intended to or not. Some get hooked and become criminals, some really skilled ones, others lousy ones who get caught early.

Discipline has to be taught, even if some people are uncomfortable with. A young mind will question their morals and test their reality, it's a common thing. If children are not taught to respect morals, they won't believe in the need for morality and will go as astray as they desire. For some, not far, but for others, well into felony territory.

Parents must teach their children morals and respect for civility so that when they become adults they are moral and civil. Parenting is preparing a child to become adult right?



I agree with Kuro.

And as I say this, Hell itself freezes over...(But I still agree with Kuro!)
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Postby Christina Anikari » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:00 pm

You know about something interesting Kuro. Do you know what group in society that is the most in favour of hard discipline in the home? Poorly educated people, in fact that is one of the clearest statistic correlations found in the science of sociology. Do you then know whose children are most often out of control and causing trouble? The children of low-income and low-education parents, the meerest glance at criminal statistics will show this. Given these two statistic correlations there seems to have to be more to the equation than just a need for discipline. One thing that could likely be important is whether the reason for the rules is clear, after all a rule that has a logically persuasive reason is likely to be much more effective than one that is merely backed by force. Another thing that might influence it is whether the parents lead a good example, alcoholic parents who tell their children that alcoholic is bad will likely be less persuasive than parents who rarely touch alcohol. I would also think that it isn't unlikely that the way the parents handle the enforcement of the rules have an influence on how the rules are percieved. What rules are set could probably also have an influence, the more rules there are the less likely they are to make sense after all and silly rules might undermine the more serious ones. It also sounds reasonable to me that what kind of interactions parents have with their children when not enforcing rules matters, if the kids only get attention when they break the rules then it seems unlikely that they will respect or love their parents very much, fear them perhaps but not the other two.

Also my, however limited as it may be, experience also indicates that it doesn't work well in practice. Noone i know who have had strict discipline in their childhood have turned out at all alrigth, whereas none who have been treated with respect and whose parents have given a damn about them without enforcing draconic rules have caused a whole lot of problems. Perhaps i just live in a bizarro world, but it still should explain why i will be hard to convince of the virtues of strict upbringing.
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Postby Chibi MitchellTF » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:25 pm

*Walks over to Christina Anikari*
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Postby Mitera Nikkou » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:32 am

As someone with experience, I know that teaching children is no easy matter, and one particular action, no matter how poignant, is hardly ever the answer for them. In my case, my parents got me stuff to keep me out of their hair, but they still punished me when I did something wrong. I probably received physical punishment until I was thirteen, just before my father left to commit some adultery. I was punished with all sorts of things. When I was nine or so, I had threatened my mother with a big stick (about my height, and as thick as my arm). Later, when she got ahold of it, she beat me with it (not just anywhere, like if I had been bent over a knee with my butt exposed), and you can imagine what she had said. More than once, I was pummeled by my father, depending on what I had done and how much alcohol he had in him. They even experimented on where to hit me, and with what.

Every child is different, and will react differently to the same kind of stuff. Where some might have become too afraid of the punishments to risk doing something wrong, I never stopped until I lost my interest in life. Only then did I take any serious considerations into how the world worked. And that happened a few years after my mother tossed me into a mental "hospital" (I consider it more like a prison) three times, because she wanted there to be something wrong with me so she could get me on SSI and, thus, have income. Damn what effect it could have had on me.

As for the lower-income and lower-education parents, I can see how that would make it harder to raise children more appropriately. I only disagree with the lower education, because even an idiot should be able to figure out how to take care of children. It isn't hard. If anything, I'd place equal blame on the system (in the US, at least) as much as the parents. Children need attentive parents, time with them, and ones that can set examples. But that's hard to accomplish when low-income (which is usually the case) parents have to spend more time working, putting minimum effort in raising children because they have a lot of other concerns to worry about, such as paying bills, making sure that they and their child have a roof over their head, and food on the table. It's hard for most young children to understand the sacrifices that parents have to make so they have what they do, and they can make the parents feel worse because they don't like them for doing the best that they can. Too many parents have too little time, too much stress, and using their own ways to deal with it, to have the right amount of opportunity and frame of mind to devote to their children.

It's simply not as easy as using the right punishment, the right attention, or the right information (and how it's delivered). You can do things that would be considered good parenting, but the child can still become a homocidal maniac. Even bad parents can produce philanthropists (take me, for example ;p). It's a very complicated process, which needs to focus on the individual needs of the children. Maybe the mother mentioned in this topic had done what she had decided was the next step in trying to teach her child about the wrongness of his actions, because her other methods didn't work. You have to give her credit for trying, especially if she had exhausted other, less dramatic methods beforehand. Whether or not she made the right choice will depend on how the boy turns out. Maybe he'll learn, and maybe he won't... And beyond that, whether or not it will have a positive or negative effect mentally. The measures that my mother took (which included calling the police on three occassions beforehand), just because I was a frustrated teen who wanted parental attention (and wasn't getting any), led me down the road to depression, detachment and apathy.

Before criticizing this mother, on whether she was right or wrong, think about this: there is no right and wrong; there is only trial and error. Until she commits a criminal act in her endeavor to teach her son (such as stabbing/cutting him with a knife, or throwing him through glass windows, et cetera), she can only try her best until she finds something that works. There are many parents that don't even bother to put that kind of effort into it, so, we can only hope that it works out, because different things work for different children.
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Postby Christina Anikari » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:22 pm

Isn't it a bit too easy to say that we cannot judge an action and what to do about it. It is very much possible to see what tends to work the best. We are talking sociology here, absolute laws cannot be established like in physics, statistical correlation can be established, however. And as such research can give general guidelines for what works the best for any given issue. The most famous is that the best way to ensure that your children will get a high degree of education is by having one yourself. The same kind of correlations can be made for parenting and as far as i can tell they seem to point towards there not being a simple formula, but that antagonistic relationships with your children doesn't help. However i am no expert in this so i cannot say anything much more specific.
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