What do you believe in?

[Knight Errant]

I never thought the idea of oblivion comforting... more terrifying. Although in experienceing it we wont experience anything so... yeah. *shrug*

And if this life is all we have, then there is no reason for any kind of altruism at all... barring warm fuzzy feelings. Life would be delegated to being nothing but a sad joke, a grim drama played to an audience of none. Rape the planet, take advantage of everything and every one, because when you die that is it... so who cares?

Thats the logical conclusion of 'the world came from nothing, and we return to nothing on death' philosophy. Not that I'm saying many people follow it... except criminals, sociopaths, and poloticians.

Edit: And no, I dont mean to say those who believe in nothing are criminals, sociopaths, and poloticians. I'm saying they are the only ones who follow the logical philosophy of believing in nothing.

[Mitera Nikkou]

That's not the logical conclusion. People find different reasons for living how they do, regardless of whether they believe that this is the only life they have or not. I only bothered to mention oblivion since a lot of people are afraid of such a concept, or don't want to accept that it's possible; but, for me, I'd welcome it. When I think what it might be like to live forever, I hope that it comes with an off switch. In a way, regardless of how life in the physical plane works, it makes a sort of sense, to me, to have a random length of existence with a term limit that can be gauged (human life span). If you don't know exactly how long you're going to live, but have an idea of how long you could, all the more reason to not take life for granted and live it how you'd like. It's a shame, though, that so many people get caught up in the mechanizations of those born before them, and those born before them, and so on and so forth, and being forced down another's well-trodden path.

But, back to oblivion. I think that those who feel that they've lived long enough, for whatever reason, should have the option -- and the choice -- to write the final chapter, put down the quill, and close the book. Eternal rest. Being asleep without ever dreaming.

Peace.

[Knight Errant]

You can keep the peace of oblivion, thanks. Though irony would have it be the great equalizer, rich and poor, famous and forgotten, all equally gone and fading from collective memory. I still find the very idea depressing. Life would in fact have no point, life for life's sake... which even then is fleeting and temporary in the scope of the universe.

To think of everything as just... just an accident? It is a crushing thought, casting darker views of man before my eyes. I saw God in the goodness of people, human decency rising above all odds on those rare shining examples... which make me feel briefly proud instead of ashamed to be human. But if all of that is reduced to chemicals, hormones, and genetic behavioral patterns... what is the point? There is none. Goodness is meaningless, altruism folly, decency absurdity. The only point in doing any of these would be to make yourself feel good, as would everything else. Eat, drink, be merry... it dosent matter what you do, because once you are dead that is it. There is no great justice, no great mercy, just humans... degraded to the level of an animal. Elevated only that it is smarter than others.

As for alternative endings... different creeds and faiths... I am less certain. It is an issue less clear to me... because I dont feel right in saying "your all wrong and I'm right" because I dont believe thats true. For all I know I could be wrong... It is a possibility, all things are possible. I am a firm believer that you should not critisize something unless you fully know and understand it. And honestly I dont feel comfortable enough in my knowledge of other faith's to make a judgement on any of them. *shrug*

[Mitera Nikkou]

No, you didn't find the idea depressing, you made the idea depressing. You just proved my point regarding why it doesn't matter one way or the other: because you just gave meaning and definition to what was supposedly meaningless. You just gave up all of the wonders of life simply because of the idea that it all amounts to nothing, even though thinking that oblivion itself means that is a gross assumption. Your mistake is the same mistake that a lot of other people make: they look at, define, and conclude something in a negative light simply because it differs from what they already think is "right", "true" and "good."

Everyone and everything has meaning or no meaning depending on the person observing them. Even if I was sure that oblivion awaited me at the end of my life, I wouldn't come to the conclusion that what ends with no resolution dictates that what led up to it is also without resolution; not absolutely. It'd depend on the individual. In fact, with the contrast of life and death, that can give people even more reason to find meaning in life, if what is made in life is unmade in death. You know, enjoy something while it lasts, because no one, and no thing, is going to do that for you. You've got a mind, use it: be optimistic, altruistic and good. For the sake of? Does it matter? The beauty of life is that we have all of these possibilities, and we're free to make of ourselves, and our environment, what we will.

Like I said before, people will believe what they want regardless of what they think is the ultimate truth. One person may go on a shooting spree and kill people, or devote their time to helping the unfortunate, whether they think oblivion, Heaven/Hell, or reincarnation awaits them. People will do what they're wont to do. The true folly is in allowing the ends to justify the means, the death to define the life. As with finding the proper means to an end, one should try to live a full life in spite of what awaits them when they die. You know, living the kind of life where, upon your death bed, you hold no regrets and the idea of death is a comforting one. Because you lived.

Not all accidents are bad. Some are blessings, whether they're easy to see or not. It all depends on how you look at it.

On another note, why care about something that you can't be sure of? Just worry about the life that you know, rather than the death that you don't know. Try to enjoy life for what it is, despite whatever you may think it is. In the end, if life continues after death, handle it as it comes, just as you did as you had lived previously: because, if life doesn't continue, then you won't have a consciousness that would allow you to care. Live in the now, as some say. Don't let it slip through your fingers.

[Zilla]

Empy, I'm with you on this. I believe it's all meaningless, and that that fact does not make it depressing! I don't care that there's no "legacy" to live for, I don't care that I live in a relatively consequence=free world on a long enough timeline. I want to be happy, and I want others to be happy too. I'm not doing it for my afterlife to score points with the judges. I'm not doing it because it betters my position in life, I just think life is wonderful and fun, and it should be as wonderful and fun for as many people as possible.

When I'm gone, I'll just be matter decomposing in the earth. I won't have a brain to process the information of what it's like to be dead. I won't know it. That's okay with me. Death is something I will only barely be able to experience for a fleeting second, before the consciousness I like to think of as myself can no longer function, and I no longer have an identity.

It's just how life goes! So enjoy it while you can!

Also, I believe that the universe has always existed, but I can't prove that. I just think a lot of people think there has to be some kind of ORIGIN because we, as humans, are only familiar with finite things. We're not really geared towards comprehending infinity. I really think that the matter that comprises the universe has always been around in some form or another, and there's no reason to introduce some anthropomorphic cosmic force into the mix.

[Blaze]

Looking back on this discussion, I think it takes a certain kind of person to see things like Nikkou and Zilla see things.

But ultimately, as long as you're happy with your life, what you believe in is a good thing to believe in.

[Xia]

Don't believe in the me who believes in you, believe in the you who believes in me

Who the hell do you think I am?

[Zilla]

Don't believe in the me who believes in you, believe in the you who believes in me

Who the hell do you think I am?

I think that's backwards >_>.

[Helel]

I think that's backwards >_>.

Not for Xia.

You'll get used to it once you get to know her. :P

[Xia]

Don't believe in the me who believes in you, believe in the you who believes in me

Who the hell do you think I am?

I think that's backwards >_>.

Do the impossible

[shinryou]

Do the impossible

Or strive harder, and do the impossimpable

[Zilla]

I actually thought you might have included a hidden message in that post with "see the invisible."

Wow I'm geeky.

[Mitera Nikkou]

a certain kind of person

You calling us crazy? ;p

I don't really see why there wouldn't be a lot of people who think like I do. I mean, it seems logical, to me, to leave your mind open to possibilities, rather than choose, absolutely, something as a truth that can't be proven as a truth. If something like that could have been proven, there wouldn't be so many people with so many ideas on what to expect after their physical bodies expire. Oblivion is just hopeful thinking, for me, but I don't expect it. Just because it's ideal for me doesn't mean that it's the way of things. I'd rather make an ass out of myself and others in more amusing ways.

Don't believe in the me who believes in you, believe in the you who believes in me

Who the hell do you think I am?

You're a bloody tax collector!

[Blaze]

I'm not saying anything of the sort Nikkou.

*spits the words Nikkou put in my mouth out*

[Zilla]

I wouldn't say necessarily that oblivion is preferable... I'm not depressed with the idea of an everlasting existence. I just don't see how that's possible when we need our brains to be who we are, and when we're dead, our brain gets destroyed.

And I think that just means we have more incentive to live life to its fullest. You don't get a second chance!