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02:58:09 <AChes> !pointer
02:58:09 <Sacchi> http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T2-58-9
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05:38:59 <Puyopuyo> !pointer
05:38:59 <Sacchi> http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T5-38-59
05:48:20 <Puyopuyo> Ian: Civ 5 had rather unbalanced and overpowered civs, moreso than 4.
05:48:23 <Puyopuyo> And has yet to balance them.
06:31:48 <nathanbp> finished wise man's fear for the 2nd time
06:31:51 <nathanbp> still amazing
06:57:29 <Pipian> Jesus
06:57:39 <Pipian> Spent Fuel pools are offscale low
06:57:53 <Pipian> These Japanese power people just can't keep it together
06:59:13 <Puyopuyo> More medicine for Nuklear Boy!
06:59:17 <Puyopuyo> Er, Nuclear.
06:59:47 <Pipian> I mean
07:00:03 <Pipian> They are literally now throwing around the idea of just encasing the damn things in concrete
07:00:17 <Puyopuyo> ...That won't fix the problem.
07:01:17 <Pipian> Where's the radioactive gas going to get to?
07:01:51 <Puyopuyo> Dunno.
07:01:54 <Pipian> In any case, here's a summary of information we don't have, if you still think TEPCO has control over current events:
07:01:55 <Pipian> 1. Any water temp or level information on Unit 4 storage pool for 4 days
07:01:55 <Pipian> 2. Any water temp or level information on Units 1-3 storage pools for 3 days
07:01:55 <Pipian> 3. Any water level or pressure level information on Unit 1 reactor for 1 day (this is the only one of the three that doesn't have suspected primary containment breech)
07:02:07 <Puyopuyo> Nah, I stopped thinking they did.
07:02:18 <Puyopuyo> Once I decided that they didn't have any idea what the hell was going on.
07:17:00 <Puyopuyo> I was under the impression that Unit 3 is doomed due to the MOX.
07:17:07 <Puyopuyo> Rather, the puddle of mox.
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13:17:05 <AChes|work> !pointer
13:17:05 <Sacchi> http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T13-17-5
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14:42:44 <nathanbp|work> !pointer
14:42:44 <Sacchi> http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2011-03-18.html#T14-42-44
14:44:26 <nathanbp|work> I dunno seems fairly likely that if they get external power restored all the nuclear plant problems should go away
14:45:02 <nathanbp|work> if things aren't on fire then the water levels in the spent fuel powers have to at least still be above the rods?
15:18:47 <AChes|work> One thing I haven't heard explained well is what the time frame is for the fuel cooling off. If it is only decay heat that is left to deal with it should have come down by a couple of orders of magnitude in the last few days right?
15:20:07 <AChes|work> and yeah that is still a lot of energy but are they just screwed now that the decay will kind of level off?
15:58:01 <nathanbp|work> the way I saw it explained is that the control rods stop the chain reaction
15:58:20 <nathanbp|work> but the left over cesium and iodine take a while to decay
15:58:26 <nathanbp|work> and they never decay to zero
15:58:34 <nathanbp|work> so even the spent fuel rods need some constant cooling
15:59:04 <nathanbp|work> the base number is that the cool requirements drop to 7% of normal right away
15:59:35 <AChes|work> true but that decay should be fairly rapid at the beginning then slow down
16:00:24 <nathanbp|work> yeah
16:00:29 <AChes|work> i think i read that after 10 days it should be about .2% or maybe it was .02% normal
16:01:17 <AChes|work> it's .2 and a week
16:01:35 <AChes|work> so that's where we are and it's not going to get alot lower real fast
16:02:30 <AChes|work> I guess I was wondering how long they expect to leave the material in the reactors
16:03:14 <AChes|work> also the mundanity of the problems with nuclear accidents always surprises me
16:03:37 <nathanbp|work> what do you mean?
16:04:23 <AChes|work> well the problem is at some level that they cant lift seawater into the vessels, which seems like a pretty everyday problem
16:05:27 <nathanbp|work> true
16:05:41 <AChes|work> I know it's more complicated than that, it's just that the more exotic parts never seem to be the problem
16:06:23 <nathanbp|work> well hopefully they'll get the external power line connected today
16:06:32 <AChes|work> I used to know more about chernobyl and 3 mile island and I remember being struck by the same thing
16:07:51 <AChes|work> have you seen any estimates of how much power they need to disipate with the water, ie how much is .2% of normal
16:08:30 <nathanbp|work> no
16:08:51 <nathanbp|work> It doesn't seem like it should take very much to just run all the pipes
16:08:58 <nathanbp|work> *pumps
16:10:06 <AChes|work> that's not what i meant to say, I meant how much energy/sec is being generated by the fuel cooling off
16:10:54 <nathanbp|work> oh
16:11:06 <nathanbp|work> no clue
16:11:13 <AChes|work> but yeah I wonder what is holding things up, you would think that you could get alot of generators by saying, if you don;t get them here its going to meltdown
16:11:21 <nathanbp|work> don't seem to be a lot of details about how this all works
16:11:29 <nathanbp|work> like how are they getting water there now?
16:11:52 <nathanbp|work> the tsunami + earthquake wiped out all the roads
16:11:55 <nathanbp|work> is I think the problem
16:13:06 <AChes|work> my terrible estimate is that the damaged reactors are about 3.5GW and probably 30-40% effcient, so maybe 10gw normal and 200mw to dissipate, seems high
16:13:22 <nathanbp|work> and while the amount of power they need isn't that large, it's still some pretty huge diesel generators they need to replace
16:13:34 <AChes|work> yeah but helicopters cant be that hard to get, if you have that kind of priorty
16:13:56 <AChes|work> what i am mostly learning here is that I dont know whats going on
16:13:57 <nathanbp|work> they're too big to be carried by helicopter
16:14:52 <AChes|work> lots of little ones? firetrucks have pumps on them, i know they were doing that for a bit, trying to spray from the outside
16:15:14 <AChes|work> this stuff clearly wont work I jsut wonder why
16:16:38 <nathanbp|work> wow "They said they are rotating out workers once they reach "maximum  lifetime exposure" of 100-250 mili-servients.  Most workers are only  staying for 24 hours before they are "retired" out and a fresh person  brought in to replace them."
16:26:26 <AChes|work> looks like 200MW wan't too far off, 40 is probably closer, which would amount to 1200 tons of water per day boiled off
16:26:36 <AChes|work> according to wikipedia at least
16:28:44 <AChes|work> acctually the page is very good
16:34:36 <nathanbp|work> that's a lot of water
16:34:52 <nathanbp|work> although I think they don't boil it off?
16:35:09 <nathanbp|work> not sure if they can go back to the normal cooling procedures or not now
16:35:46 <AChes|work> I don't think it normally boils but at this point that's probably where it's going
16:36:21 <AChes|work> well actually it is a boiling water reactor, but that is a closed loop and there is alternative cooling
16:39:45 <nathanbp|work> well I guess normally it boils and is condensed afterwards
16:39:52 <nathanbp|work> instead of just boiling off like they're doing now
18:00:01 <nathanbp|work> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/opinion/17azuma.html
18:00:02 <Sacchi> For a Change, Proud to Be Japanese - NYTimes.com
18:04:23 <nathanbp|work> (The author of that article is apparently the story creator for Fractale)
18:12:44 <nathanbp|work> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11075/1132302-82.stm has some interesting details
18:12:44 <Sacchi> Last Defense at Troubled Reactors: 50 Japanese Workers
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20:44:30 <nathanbp|work> bah still 2.5 hours of work left :(
20:44:34 <Puyopuyo> Boo.
20:44:42 <Puyopuyo> GAH, PURRLOIN IS CRAP. WHAT A TERRIBLE CAT.
20:59:54 <nathanbp|work> ??
20:59:57 <nathanbp|work> Pokemon?
21:00:49 <Puyopuyo> Pokemon
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23:00:53 <Puyopuyo> ....Ian, how can people play this? Goddamn Fire Monkey nearly lost me the battle.
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