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| 01:06:12 [nathanbp] | my Nexus 7 doesn't handle 10 bit h264 very well... |
| 01:06:25 [Puyopuyo] | Nothing does! |
| 01:06:34 [Puyopuyo] | How is it doing for everything else? |
| 01:08:20 [nathanbp] | haven't tried anything else |
| 01:08:32 [nathanbp] | need to set up a webserver on my desktop and try streaming other stuff |
| 01:08:51 [nathanbp] | haven't found an app that can samba mount my desktop yet, annoying. |
| 01:10:26 [nathanbp] | firefox sync would be more useful if I didn't have 10 million tabs open on my desktop... |
| 01:11:41 [Puyopuyo] | Heheheh. |
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| 02:52:17 [nathanbp] | hmm I think I'm going to have to find stuff that's hard subbed if I want to watch it on this... |
| 02:55:02 [Puyopuyo] | Ouch |
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| 03:07:09 [gadgetgrl] | !pointer |
| 03:07:09 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2012-08-03.html#T3-7-9 |
| 03:15:28 [nathanbp] | unless I can find a player that actually does crazy subtitles correctly... |
| 03:17:58 [nathanbp] | hmm actually VLC Beta seems to work ok on 8-bit |
| 03:18:14 [nathanbp] | wonder if it's using hardware decoding or not... |
| 03:22:31 [nathanbp] | hmm hardware decoding seems to crash VLC Beta... |
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| 03:49:01 [nathanbp] | help how do I tell if a video file is 10 bit or not? |
| 03:51:05 [Puyopuyo] | They tell you? |
| 03:53:02 [nathanbp] | but what if they didn't tell me? |
| 03:55:31 [Puyopuyo] | Then they suck and you have to find out the annoying way. |
| 04:20:27 [nathanbp] | do you know what the annoying way is? |
| 04:20:55 [Puyopuyo] | Trying to play it on your tablet? |
| 04:21:42 [nathanbp] | trying to see what the output of vlc's encoder is |
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| 05:24:51 [nathanbp] | avinaptic is apparently the program to use |
| 05:25:03 [Puyopuyo] | Woot. |
| 05:25:55 [nathanbp] | or actually...properties...media info in media player classic |
| 05:25:56 [nathanbp] | >_< |
| 05:26:24 [nathanbp] | Also, handbrake encodes the middle frame for subtitle animations |
| 05:26:47 [nathanbp] | so for karaoke it's just frozen in the middle of the line.... |
| 05:27:00 [Puyopuyo] | >_< Bleh |
| 05:27:32 [nathanbp] | looks like VLC may be the way to go for reencoding... |
| 05:29:44 [nathanbp] | I wonder how long it will take for fansubbers to switch to 14 bit color... |
| 05:30:15 [Puyopuyo] | >_> |
| 05:32:00 [Pipian-Work] | So uh |
| 05:32:12 [Pipian-Work] | Are there even displays that do 10bit color |
| 05:32:32 [Pipian-Work] | (I'm assuming 10-bits per channel) |
| 05:32:41 [Pipian-Work] | (Because otherwise the answer is an unqualified yes) |
| 05:36:48 [nathanbp] | I've been unable to get an explanation as to what exactly is being made 10 bits or why it's advantageous in any way |
| 05:38:07 [Pipian-Work] | Answer |
| 05:38:10 [Puyopuyo] | I thought it was the sound channels. |
| 05:38:18 [Pipian-Work] | Couldn't be |
| 05:38:21 [Pipian-Work] | 16-bit is standard there |
| 05:38:31 [Pipian-Work] | If it was 10-bit sound, it would sound WORSE |
| 05:38:33 [Pipian-Work] | No |
| 05:38:34 [Pipian-Work] | It's color |
| 05:38:41 [Pipian-Work] | And it's only supported on Windows 7 |
| 05:38:45 [Pipian-Work] | Making it even sillier |
| 05:39:25 [Pipian-Work] | That said, most modern Nvidia and ATI cards seem to support it since 2006 |
| 05:39:32 [Puyopuyo] | Looks like it. |
| 05:39:50 [Pipian-Work] | But if you're not using HDMI 1.3 or DisplayPort |
| 05:39:51 [Pipian-Work] | Why? |
| 05:41:03 [Pipian-Work] | Seems particularly excessive for Anime |
| 05:41:09 [nathanbp] | I think it's not 10 bits per channel, it's actually 2 additional level bits |
| 05:41:11 [Pipian-Work] | Where you've got nearly solid colors to begin with |
| 05:41:26 [nathanbp] | color is encoded separately I think... |
| 05:41:31 [Pipian-Work] | Oh boy my painted backgrounds look vaguely more life-like! |
| 05:42:29 [Pipian-Work] | I mean |
| 05:42:34 [Pipian-Work] | Images that support it I suppose |
| 05:42:35 [Pipian-Work] | But uh |
| 05:42:43 [Pipian-Work] | If you're not getting a 10-bit signal to begin with |
| 05:42:45 [Pipian-Work] | why bother? |
| 05:42:49 [Puyopuyo] | If we're going for photo-realism, maybe. |
| 05:42:55 [Pipian-Work] | In an anime? |
| 05:43:01 [Puyopuyo] | But yeah, I don't really see the point of two additional level bits in an anime. |
| 05:43:13 [Pipian-Work] | I mean |
| 05:43:18 [Pipian-Work] | Blu-ray in theory |
| 05:43:21 [Pipian-Work] | Gaming sure |
| 05:43:29 [Pipian-Work] | But animation? |
| 05:43:44 [nathanbp] | Supposedly you get better compression out of it |
| 05:44:33 [Pipian-Work] | I guess if you were doing post-processing 10-bit could be helpful |
| 05:45:19 [Pipian-Work] | But yeah |
| 05:45:25 [Pipian-Work] | HDTV content is currently still 8-bit color |
| 05:45:35 [Pipian-Work] | You get better compression sure |
| 05:45:44 [Pipian-Work] | Because you automatically lop off 2-bits off the raw color channel |
| 05:45:47 [Pipian-Work] | BAM |
| 05:45:54 [Pipian-Work] | 20% compression right there. |
| 05:47:02 [Pipian-Work] | It's just another case of technowonkery where the anime subbers think they're using this edgy cool technology |
| 05:47:08 [Pipian-Work] | But there's really no good reason to do so |
| 05:47:46 [Pipian-Work] | Now what they could be doing |
| 05:47:52 [Pipian-Work] | Is using a 10-bit decoder chain |
| 05:48:01 [Pipian-Work] | for the 8-bit colors when you're decoding |
| 05:48:36 [Pipian-Work] | Seeing as MPEG works by encoding gradient blocks like JPEG |
| 05:49:07 [Pipian-Work] | So you might get visual benefits based on how the blocking is done |
| 05:49:28 [nathanbp] | I saw some article claiming that no matter your source or destination using 10 bit color let you encode at the same quality with a lower bitrate |
| 05:49:34 [nathanbp] | not sure I believe it |
| 05:49:38 [nathanbp] | or that it really matters for anime |
| 05:50:39 [Pipian-Work] | Thus my point stands; for image processing it might be marginally better, but for the base content? Eh. |
| 05:51:37 [Pipian-Work] | I don't see how the compression works out at all |
| 05:51:46 [Pipian-Work] | It doesn't make any intuitive logical sense |
| 05:54:34 [Pipian-Work] | http://19lights.com/wp/2011/09/30/is-8-bits-enough-of-course-not/ |
| 05:54:38 [Pipian-Work] | A partially useful argument |
| 05:54:38 [Sacchi] | Is 8 bits enough? Of course not. | 19lights |
| 05:55:03 [Pipian-Work] | But they're not really making a good one, since they don't really acknowledge that banding is only an issue in low-contrast situations. |
| 05:56:56 [nathanbp] | Well remember that video isn't encoded in RGB either |
| 06:01:46 [Pipian-Work] | Are they working with YUV source material then? |
| 06:01:49 [Pipian-Work] | Well |
| 06:02:57 [Pipian-Work] | No |
| 06:02:59 [Pipian-Work] | Odf course not |
| 06:03:09 [Pipian-Work] | Because the base source material is MPEG-2 anyway |
| 06:03:17 [Pipian-Work] | or MPEG-4 |
| 06:04:12 [nathanbp] | ? MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 would both be YUV |
| 06:04:36 [Pipian-Work] | Unless their source is HI10P to start with |
| 06:04:39 [Pipian-Work] | It's a moot point |
| 06:05:40 [Pipian-Work] | Except that they're usually getting them over the air |
| 06:05:52 [Pipian-Work] | Which means they're grabbing Baseline or High profile |
| 06:05:54 [Pipian-Work] | not HI10P |
| 06:06:42 [nathanbp] | http://x264.nl/x264/10bit_02-ateme-why_does_10bit_save_bandwidth.pdf |
| 06:07:05 [Pipian-Work] | And blu-ray is High profile too |
| 06:07:09 [Pipian-Work] | So all their source is 8-bit |
| 06:07:39 [Pipian-Work] | So their source material has banding to begin with |
| 06:08:59 [nathanbp] | *shrug* prevents additional banding in the reencoding process? |
| 06:09:20 [Pipian-Work] | 10-bit compression of a 10-bit source saves bandwidth |
| 06:09:20 [Pipian-Work] | Sure |
| 06:09:32 [Pipian-Work] | But it's 10-bit compression of an 8-bit source |
| 06:10:22 [nathanbp] | but they're always reducing the resolution |
| 06:10:34 [nathanbp] | so there's more than 8 bits of color data to start with |
| 06:10:48 [nathanbp] | (as usually it's 1080 source -> 720 output) |
| 06:13:36 [nathanbp] | anyways I'm going to sleep |
| 06:17:08 [Puyopuyo] | Night! |
| 06:19:40 [nathanbp|tablet] | -!- nathanbp|tablet has joined #Cochineal |
| 06:20:31 [nathanbp|tablet] | And by sleep I meant play with my tablet some more >_> |
| 06:23:31 [Puyopuyo] | >_> |
| 06:23:37 [Puyopuyo] | Crowded channel we have here. |
| 06:25:46 [nathanbp|tablet] | OK, real sleep time |
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| 17:59:57 [nathanbp|work] | Continuing my tradition of posting random links to Dinosaur Comics: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1085 |
| 18:00:01 [Sacchi] | Dinosaur Comics - October 4th, 2007 - awesome fun times! |
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| 18:08:27 [AChes] | !pointer |
| 18:08:27 [Sacchi] | http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/cochineal-logs/Cochineal-2012-08-03.html#T18-8-27 |
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