BlackDragon71486: hmm, I dunno I get this feeling ya got something to say to me, I might be wrong, but yanno, I gotta ask, ya got something ya wanna say to my face? am I being paranoid? or would you rather just wait til the other mods were awake? im here, any problems ya got with me? <.< any at all..
coruscatingintel: My problem is that...
coruscatingintel: ...this has been a constant, persistant, and repetitive fight on the boards.
coruscatingintel: And we don't need the fight breaking out again.
coruscatingintel: That's number one.
coruscatingintel: Number two is how you brought it up.
BlackDragon71486: most of mine has been on LJ
coruscatingintel: Like I said, sure honest and blunt sure.
coruscatingintel: Yes I've noticed that and I have no issue with you using your LJ for that.
coruscatingintel: That's *YOUR* LJ.
BlackDragon71486: heh
coruscatingintel: That's *YOUR* perogative what you put in *YOUR* LJ.
coruscatingintel: I won't even touch that. I might comment.
BlackDragon71486: of course, that dont stop ya from disliking my rants
BlackDragon71486: does it
coruscatingintel: No of course not. You have your opinion, I have mine.
coruscatingintel: All's fair.
coruscatingintel: But basically you have self control issues that cause you to randomly dump on people on the boards.
coruscatingintel: I used politics as a quick example.
coruscatingintel: I have an article that I'm going to post to the soap box later that I would like to title "Republicans sell America up the river again - they'd piss on the flag if it would put money in their wallet" but I can't do that.
BlackDragon71486: I dont dump on people, I dump on mods when they make mistakes or bring up subjects....
coruscatingintel: I have to control my mouth because I'm in a public forum where I have to respect the right of other people to hold their opinion and if I want to affect their opinion I need to show self control.
coruscatingintel: Jaymes, that news posts was a celebration for Haneko.
coruscatingintel: And like I said, saying "well I'm not going to talk about this" is the same as talking about it.
coruscatingintel: Because you did say something.
BlackDragon71486: I congratulated Goose in private several times
coruscatingintel: If you had controlled yourself, you would have congratulated Haneko and that would have been it.
coruscatingintel: Here, let me get the text.
BlackDragon71486: dude, Goose knows it aint personal, GOOSE knows im not attacking him
BlackDragon71486: we talked about it
coruscatingintel: Listen to me for a moment.
coruscatingintel: Your original: Congratulations Goose, yanno how I feel on it, so I wont start anither argument about the mod System here on the boards...

We're still buds, but dont ever expect me to treat ya like a mod, because your my friend first, and a mod WAY second...

Anyways congratulations again, dont let me down !
BlackDragon71486: alright
coruscatingintel: What could have been said: Congratulations Goose, yanno how I feel on it.

We're still buds, but dont ever expect me to treat ya like a mod, because your my friend first, and a mod WAY second...

Anyways congratulations again, dont let me down !
coruscatingintel: That's what self control gets you.
coruscatingintel: All it took was toning down your words and I wouldn't have taken notice of what you siad.
coruscatingintel: It's that simple.
coruscatingintel: Self control is knowing when to keep your weapon in its holster.
coruscatingintel: You're combative, I'm not saying you intend to be mean, but you tend to be a little more reckless than you should be.
coruscatingintel: What you say on your LJ is your own business.
coruscatingintel: But when you're on the board or in IRC please remember where you are.
coruscatingintel: I'm not saying you don't have the right to speak, you do.
coruscatingintel: You have a right to share your opinion.
BlackDragon71486: a simple comment shouldn't have been a big deal, Goose knows what I meant before I said it
coruscatingintel: But keep in mind where you are, what the focus of where you are is, and ask yourself "Am I going through the right channel? Is this the right place to say what I want to? How polite am I being?"
BlackDragon71486: we had talked about since before he was modded this afternoon
coruscatingintel: Look, I'm not saying you offened Haneko.
BlackDragon71486: so I was simply stating not going to get into another discussion here on the boards in your topic
coruscatingintel: Right, but that's back to self control.
coruscatingintel: By saying that, you egg on the discussion.
coruscatingintel: Like someone ripping a loud fart during the "I do." ;-)
BlackDragon71486: if I wasn't controlling myself, I would've waited til my current Rant was done, and posted it instead, I showed self-control by NOT starting the argument
BlackDragon71486: listing what I thought about the mod system
BlackDragon71486: so the mods would respond
BlackDragon71486: and it'd turn into the argument I said I wouldn't start
coruscatingintel: Question.
coruscatingintel: A friend of yours is getting married.
coruscatingintel: They just said "I do."
coruscatingintel: You're standing in the reception hall.
coruscatingintel: You are in a crowd of people.
coruscatingintel: Would you say "Congratulations on your marriage you know how I feel about marriage so I won't start another argument about marriage here" to the bride?
coruscatingintel: Or should you say "Congratulations on your marriage." ?
BlackDragon71486: all depends if I didn't like the bride, I wouldn't hide it, id accept it, say something like "Congratulations, you know how I feel about ya, so I wont ruin your day and bring up my feelings for ya, Congratulations all the same, I hope you and him will be happy together"
coruscatingintel: Y'see you don't do that.
coruscatingintel: You might say it before the day.
coruscatingintel: You might say it the day after.
coruscatingintel: But you don't do it in the room during the climax moment in front of everyone.
coruscatingintel: That's where self control comes in.
coruscatingintel: Subltety man, subtlety.
coruscatingintel: Knowing when to say little is good!
coruscatingintel: But you should also know when and where not to say anything.
BlackDragon71486: if I was subtle I wouldn't be blunt :S its a bad habit my bluntness, but yeah
coruscatingintel: Yes, it is a bad habit.
coruscatingintel: I can be blunt, very blunt.
coruscatingintel: I've said completely tasteless things in front of others, some equal to or worse than what we're talking about now.
coruscatingintel: I had to learn self control.
coruscatingintel: And I'm telling you, self control is your issue.
coruscatingintel: We're people too, and every time we gotta' go hose down another useless argument it takes away our own fun.
BlackDragon71486: those who know me, which ill admit, you dont know me, know that I dont mean offense with what I say, but I say it because its how I feel <.<
coruscatingintel: We have spent a lot of energy in the last few months fighting a bunch of useless fights because certain people make a big fuss about the fact we actually exist.
coruscatingintel: I was supposed to have a handmaiden back in January but someone raised a big ol' ruckus the next day and I never got the help I needed because of it.
BlackDragon71486: and you gotta admit, if I was even considered for a modspot :p you would fight the useless fight to make sure it didn't happen, wouldn't ya
coruscatingintel: I'll fight for those who can do the job.
coruscatingintel: Those who I feel can't do the job I will voice my objection and leave it up to the process.
coruscatingintel: But that's neither here nor there.
BlackDragon71486: no... you dont want me being a mod, we both know it
BlackDragon71486: plain and simple, you dont want me being a mod
coruscatingintel: To be frank I don't think you can handle it, since you want to press the issue.
BlackDragon71486: I can handle it, id just be too blunt, and have people complaining
BlackDragon71486: people that aren't Users
BlackDragon71486: >.>
coruscatingintel: Blunt, again, is a matter of self control.
coruscatingintel: If a girl walks up to you and says "Does this make me look fat" what would you say?
BlackDragon71486: if you control yourself, your not being blunt... your being straight forward, being blunt and straight forward, are two different things
coruscatingintel: Would you be blunt, or would you try to contain your response?
coruscatingintel: Everything you do is a choise, your words, your actions.
BlackDragon71486: <Girl> Does this make me look fat <Me> Unforunately Yes, if I were you id check to see if they had it in Black, because its said to be very slimming
coruscatingintel: You can contain yourself, you just have to choose to do so.
coruscatingintel: A mod job can be real busy, and require lots of self control. For instance my replies to you earlier were run by another mod first.
BlackDragon71486: im honest to a very high letter, but im blunt, thats my flaw, unforunately me restraining my bluntness, is like you not talking politics
coruscatingintel: Not quite, because I am "blunt" yet I keep talking.
coruscatingintel: Knowing how to rephrase what you say and be patient with your delivery is a necessary social skill.
coruscatingintel: We're a social group.
coruscatingintel: And when people don't consider others we get problems.
coruscatingintel: Problems suck the life out of the group.
coruscatingintel: Any group.
coruscatingintel: The more we do fun stuff the more people want to be around.
BlackDragon71486: my rants are blunt, correct?
coruscatingintel: The more people fight and bicker in public the less people want to be around.
coruscatingintel: Rants in your own LJ can be as blunt as you like.
coruscatingintel: Again, *YOUR* lj.
BlackDragon71486: but instead of causing problems, my rants get me respect, how is that a problem, if people respect me for my bluntness
coruscatingintel: If you kept it all to your LJ I wouldn't have as many issues with you as I do.
coruscatingintel: But you have these moments were you let it go at the wrong times where you show that you are incapable or unwilling to control yourself.
BlackDragon71486: as a matter of fact, the only people who have ever voiced complaints about my bluntness are mods
coruscatingintel: If it was one mod you might be able to claim bias.
BlackDragon71486: im not claiming bias
BlackDragon71486: not by a long shot
coruscatingintel: We're all unique individuals, we all have varying temperments and conditions under which we act.
coruscatingintel: You seem to be blaiming a mod bias.
coruscatingintel: We're not a second class of people.
BlackDragon71486: im just wondering why Users have no problems with them, but the Mods seem to get upset because I do them
coruscatingintel: In spite of your complaints it seems you're the one making the division here not us.
coruscatingintel: And which users are these you're talking about? You have friends, your friends talk to you. We talk to all people, we hear things you don't.
BlackDragon71486: http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_takineth/31516.html
coruscatingintel: You see a part of the picture you want to, we put our heds together and get the larger picture.
coruscatingintel: Alread there, I was in the middle of reading when you IMed me.
BlackDragon71486: IRCers mostly are the users im talking about
coruscatingintel: And again, you're only seeing part of the situation.
BlackDragon71486: im talking about what I see, if I saw everything in every place, then id be a mod apparently, but im not... so I cant
coruscatingintel: Being a mod is not a right.
coruscatingintel: It requires trust. You recently showed that you betrayed someone's trust. Which I must couch with Sakura has asked us to let bygones be bygones and I will stand by her decision, but A is A, I can't pretend that it didn't happen.
coruscatingintel: Especially since you want to maket his a "you don't want me to be a mod" conversation.
BlackDragon71486: heh, first off
coruscatingintel: It requires self control. You just showed that self control is very hard for you, you can't even get the idea of self control into you. Saying "oh I'm just being blunt" won't save you if you mess up at a job.
coruscatingintel: Mods are no different than management at a business.
coruscatingintel: It takes the same qualities. We're not special, but we follow directions and keep control of ourselves. And those of us that do have problems? The others watch and try to keep in line. We are not perfect and make no claim to be.
BlackDragon71486: dont pretend it didn't happen, it happened ill admit it, people ask me ill tell em, but I didn't do anything wrong, I found a password I used it... just like anybody else who constantly heres 'mod business this, and mod business that' would do, you cant understand that, because your a mod, with access to the room
coruscatingintel: So if you find a key on the street and use it on the nearby door, and go into someone else'e house and read their diaries you think that' sokay?
coruscatingintel: If you found the key to your boss's desk and used it to read private employee documents do you think he'd spare you a pink slip?
BlackDragon71486: if you were in my spot you would've done the same thing, you can deny for sure, because we'll never know for sure, because your a mod who can deny anything for ever, but we cant prove it
BlackDragon71486: Being a mod doesn't give ya anything, I got my reasons for wanting it...
coruscatingintel: News for you, whenver you go into the wonderful world of work, you're going to work for people that hold all sorts of opinions of you that they keep to themselves, including management. Your employee records will have at least one bad mark on them, a mark which you will never be allowed to read with your own eyes, written by a manage who may smile in your face and treat you with respect. It's our job to handle problems. This isn't some super hero comic book, we don't run around with our issues on our sleeve and take people to task publicly. How we discuss things in private is our responsability as well as our business.
coruscatingintel: And I can't trust those unstated reasons.
coruscatingintel: Look, maybe these rants are jealousy.
coruscatingintel: Maybe they're not, maybe you see real issues.
BlackDragon71486: Self-Control, when it comes to my anger I can control it, when it comes to my words I can be a little blunt we know that, but Xia does the same thing, so do other mods... but they dont ever get called on "Lack of Self-Control"
coruscatingintel: It's hard to say, I can make some guesses, but I'm only going to go so far with it.
coruscatingintel: BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!
coruscatingintel: We do call each other on self control if any one of us displays it.
BlackDragon71486: and if it happens in IRC what then, if you cant see it, but I can does that mean that Xia did nothing wrong, because you cant see it
coruscatingintel: Users tell us.
coruscatingintel: We investigate.
coruscatingintel: We have before.
coruscatingintel: And if it happens again we will again.
BlackDragon71486: and nothing happens.... they get a second chance
BlackDragon71486: and a third
BlackDragon71486: and then another
coruscatingintel: That we don't haul Xia out onto a public stage and flog her publicly doesn't mean we didn't listen, research and act.
coruscatingintel: As you have.
BlackDragon71486: haha
coruscatingintel: Checkmate ;^)
BlackDragon71486: second chances my foot, I was demoted from being a mentor without a warning or a second chance
BlackDragon71486: you guys could've talked about it, all ya want, dont mean I ever heard about it
coruscatingintel: What you did was unprecedented.
BlackDragon71486: you can say "his butt stinks" but if you dont tell the person, they wont know their butt stinks, so they wont try to make unstinky
coruscatingintel: You were not alone, we all do know that, but that was causing lots of problems.
coruscatingintel: The mentor job was a low level job that required trust, you broke that trust.
coruscatingintel: Like real life, broken trust is often not returned.
coruscatingintel: Look, if you have it out for Xia, I'll tell you exactly what Sak would tell you: KEEP LOGS.
BlackDragon71486: hmph unlike real life, a warning wasn't given, unlike real life, I wasn't pulled aside and told "HEY! your causing a disturbance put a stop to it, or we'll have to do it for ya, this is your warning"
coruscatingintel: We get complaints and one person even demanded Sak act without proof. We try to be objective about things.
coruscatingintel: Yes but at the same time what were you doing at the time you were caught?
coruscatingintel: Were you the saintly Jaymes, not causing any problems?
coruscatingintel: Look at your actions in context of your other actions.
BlackDragon71486: am I saying I was saintly, hell no, I had my reasons for that night, and people took it to heart, and got all upset because they couldn't play fluffy cute Ovies
coruscatingintel: I'm not referring to that incident, it wasn't even on my mind.
BlackDragon71486: well thats the incident that happened to get my 'demoted' when you made the reason I stuck around with the password
coruscatingintel: Nor was I even one who complained, actually I was glad to see you apologize the next day.
BlackDragon71486: "James"
BlackDragon71486: remember
BlackDragon71486: that whole thread, that caused Xia to demote me
BlackDragon71486: thats what I was demoted for
coruscatingintel: No, my memory isn't that fuzzy, James.
BlackDragon71486: you made the topic, Xia said I was being a bad role model, Tomoyo said something about me being removed from the Active Mentor List....
BlackDragon71486: I remember that much, you made the thread calling me immature, or was it a spoiled, brat, either way, people commented, and when I got on, I had no +
coruscatingintel: I'm in the mod room whenever it opens, you read the messages, but what you didn't pay attention to was further debate, comments in AIM which you could not see, and other decisions that were made around that time.
coruscatingintel: To try and isolate a few events and play "innocent James" isn't going to work.
BlackDragon71486: im not innocent, I know ive done things
coruscatingintel: We've only layed the hammer down on two people permanently on MSF, everyone else is treated with kid gloves.
BlackDragon71486: I know im at fault for alot of things... but I was not warned, I didn't get a second chance, this is like the Boss walking into my office when I show up to work "oh! thats right I fired you during the night.... sorry"
coruscatingintel: A person who makes an honest mistake gets a second chance.
coruscatingintel: A person who is usually honest who makes a big, semi-intentional mistake might get a second chance.
coruscatingintel: But look at all of your behavior, this was more than just flawed. You were being very conceited, causing problems, betraying a friend with the password and then spying.
BlackDragon71486: but people aren't usually fired with the head of the corporatation knowing either
coruscatingintel: That's... an awful lot to get caught doing.
BlackDragon71486: not knowing-
coruscatingintel: You know I've tried to keep the kid gloves on for most of this conversation but since you want to keep going at it, that's the big part here.
BlackDragon71486: whoa!
BlackDragon71486: hold on there
BlackDragon71486: A) you guys didn't know I had the password
BlackDragon71486: till last month
BlackDragon71486: so thats not an excuse
BlackDragon71486: B) I was ranting about MSF problems, if MSF didn't have problems, I wouldn't have to rant, so im not causing problems, im applying triple anti-biotic cream to a wound, so it wont fester and get worse
coruscatingintel: Read in the context of spying, many of your rants seem to be anger because you weren't invited in.
BlackDragon71486: unlike the mods who will talk about the IRC problems and poke at it
BlackDragon71486: ill try to fix them in a rash way
coruscatingintel: Look, I can't and won't say that you will never be a mod. And I'm not saying that because of a rule or because of Sak or something, I'm saying that because maybe you'll learn some self control clean up your attitude and earn our trust sometime.
coruscatingintel: But right now it's not happening.
BlackDragon71486: I know its not
coruscatingintel: I didn't want to bring up the spying, nor your modship.
BlackDragon71486: but even if I changed today
coruscatingintel: You brought that up.
coruscatingintel: Because it's bugging you.
BlackDragon71486: in 6 months
BlackDragon71486: you'd still see me as I am now
coruscatingintel: All I wanted to do was put you on page that you need to learn and use some self control.
BlackDragon71486: because you dont see me enough
BlackDragon71486: you hear second hand tails
BlackDragon71486: and get your info off that
BlackDragon71486: you see me one night, and you base a year of me off of that
BlackDragon71486: and bring up anything, get it out to my face
coruscatingintel: Modship is not about getting in people's faces.
BlackDragon71486: so YOU wont have to be conceited and talk behind my back
coruscatingintel: When I hear a complaint, I first consider the source.
coruscatingintel: Then I get corroboration from other sources.
coruscatingintel: Some mods I trust more than others.
coruscatingintel: Their perception I mean.
coruscatingintel: Then if users talk to me, I consider that.
BlackDragon71486: thats the problem... it shouldn't be Users and Mods, and Mods and Users
coruscatingintel: I'm 28, Jaymes, and I've had quite a bit of experience under my belt.
BlackDragon71486: it should be Users... and Users with fancy title and rule enforcement
BlackDragon71486: I dont care how old ya are
coruscatingintel: See we're right back to the hate game.
BlackDragon71486: or how much experience ya got
coruscatingintel: It's not a conspiracy.
coruscatingintel: Most mods are mods because of their experience, their perception, their patience and ability to analyze what's going on.
coruscatingintel: On the board we are just users but when it comes to management we are managers.
coruscatingintel: A general is a soldier too, but when he steps into the map room he is a general and he's going to trust others whose abilities have been proven.
BlackDragon71486: MSF is for the individual, so if I see a problem, MSF should discuss the problem, or ask me about the problem
BlackDragon71486: a problem that hinders my fun*
coruscatingintel: And we're back to self control.
coruscatingintel: Sometimes that self control is not saying anything.
coruscatingintel: Watching a user (in this case you) and not saying anything.
coruscatingintel: Or saying very little.
coruscatingintel: You didn't need to know what we were thinking.
coruscatingintel: You wanted to be a mod.
coruscatingintel: In spite of prtending you didn't want to be some people figured it out.
BlackDragon71486: so you expect me to say nothing.... and just let people hinder other people's fun, and just wait... dont say anything... watch it somemore, dont say anything, hope it'll blow over
coruscatingintel: Figuring people out isn't as much a time issue as it is data, perception and analasys. Some work faster than others.
coruscatingintel: You were complaining about our comments about you and I'm pointing out hte relaity.
BlackDragon71486: I dont care what people figure out, im not hard to figure out
BlackDragon71486: im not hiding anything really hard
coruscatingintel: We didn't need to hop onto our horses and come down from mount olympus to hang you, you had some issues, we noted them, we discussed our opinions as any manager / general would and shared our mutual opinions on what decisions should be.
BlackDragon71486: so what
BlackDragon71486: if you found out that I talked behind your back, called you everything I could without swearing
BlackDragon71486: err
BlackDragon71486: lemme rephrase
coruscatingintel: Look, look.
coruscatingintel: It's our job to understand people.
BlackDragon71486: lets say I talked behind your back, called you everything I could without swearing, slanderized your name, totally put ya down without even talking to ya about my feelings, would you want to know this? would you appreciate the kindness to be told or to find out someway
coruscatingintel: And our job to case people if we decide we need help.
BlackDragon71486: even if its sneaky
coruscatingintel: You wanted to help... great.
coruscatingintel: But... when we looked at how you behaved we didn't see the level of maturity we desired in a mod.
coruscatingintel: That's basically it.
coruscatingintel: When we share info we need to be blunt, communication requires it.
coruscatingintel: You were the one who took the key that didn't belong to you and walked into a room that you shouldn't have been in.
coruscatingintel: That was your choice.
BlackDragon71486: screw the mod spot, im not talking about the mod spot, im talking about you guys talking behind my back like that, im talking about me losing my mentor spot, because you felt I was a bad role model, but even now alot of people look up to me more than they do most mods
coruscatingintel: Again, when you enter the world of work if you are not employed right now you will find managers saying the same things of you.
coruscatingintel: All "behind your back" and none of them will ever reveal it to you.
coruscatingintel: A mentor spot is a minor mod spot.
BlackDragon71486: MSF is not a business though, MSF is made for the individual, MSF is made for people like me
BlackDragon71486: without the individual there is no MSF
BlackDragon71486: plain and simple
coruscatingintel: MSF is a privately owned an run board, owned by Sakura. Sakura continued a tradition of keeping it online to make it's "services" available to people.
BlackDragon71486: yes
BlackDragon71486: and Sakura herself has said
coruscatingintel: She sets the overall rules, we help her administer her rules.
BlackDragon71486: that MSF was made for the individual
coruscatingintel: And those rules are to help the individual enjoy themselves.
coruscatingintel: When one user, whoever that is, decides that they are more important than other users, or that they are special and other users be damned, whatever.
coruscatingintel: We get complaints.
coruscatingintel: We gather data.
coruscatingintel: We share analasys.
coruscatingintel: We discuss solutions.
coruscatingintel: We begin implentting them.
coruscatingintel: Management.
BlackDragon71486: did any of the users come to you with complaints, or were you just voicing one what ya saw
coruscatingintel: It's the same whether you're in a business or hte military.
BlackDragon71486: "Hey I think I saw him about to start a riot... lets get him!!"
coruscatingintel: What I saw, what I heard from people who I choose to give my trust and possibly a comment or two.
coruscatingintel: You're overreacting.
BlackDragon71486: how? people agreed with things I said, people were happy to see someone voicing the things they wanted to say, but you guys only saw the word "problem"
BlackDragon71486: I was having fun TFing people, dodging if necessary
BlackDragon71486: but again there was that word "problem"
coruscatingintel: Again, you're seeing your self image, your fans (nothing wrong with those) but what you don't see is the people who disagree. The people who don't like how you express this anger of yours.
BlackDragon71486: I get upset that night... you see "spoiled brat aka problem"
coruscatingintel: It's not based off a single incident.
BlackDragon71486: no your basing off what Duck said (when he wasn't around for some of the incidents himself) or what Xia said (when for a while she hated me like Moriko did for the Kijo thing)
BlackDragon71486: they saw problem
BlackDragon71486: they said problem
BlackDragon71486: you guys agreed
BlackDragon71486: problem
coruscatingintel: *slaps forehead*
BlackDragon71486: without knowing anything about it really, without being there
coruscatingintel: Oh yes those big bad evil moderators.
BlackDragon71486: no!
coruscatingintel: Always out to crucify poor James who is a saint.
BlackDragon71486: its not anything about the moderators
BlackDragon71486: Users are the same way~!
BlackDragon71486: im the same way dangit!
BlackDragon71486: dont make it any better that ya guys did it though
BlackDragon71486: "oh, he set off two cherry bombs in those woods, they could've started a fire"
BlackDragon71486: "oh but we set them off in this concrete room, so its not bad"
coruscatingintel: u_u *just looking at the screen blankly*
BlackDragon71486: you can be disgusted or whatever, people say "be yourself" when yourself "learn self-control"
coruscatingintel: You can be yourself and have self control.
coruscatingintel: When you were 6 you were "being yourself" even though your manners then would shock the you that lives now.
coruscatingintel: Let's not lose focus, this whole discussion fired up when you said something off color in a "congratulations Haneko" thread.
BlackDragon71486: I have self-control.. at certain times, I choose not to use it
coruscatingintel: Then you choose the results of not using self control.
coruscatingintel: You should have used it.
coruscatingintel: That wasn't called for.
BlackDragon71486: but it was true, and was already public, and in MSF... it would've probably been brought up by Xia tomorrow or something anyway.. so why hide it... I agree Self-Control is needed but Geez... why so much restrictions man, why such a big deal over a few words
coruscatingintel: Manners.
coruscatingintel: Respect.
coruscatingintel: That's what the big deal is.
BlackDragon71486: hmph <.< lets not talk about those, shall we
coruscatingintel: And it was such a simple thing but you keep tripping over this.
coruscatingintel: No, those are the point.
coruscatingintel: Manners are how you socialize with other people without ticking them off.
coruscatingintel: The subject was "happy happy happy Haneko" not "Poopy poopy poopy MSF modship."
BlackDragon71486: why.. if the mods aren't going to be a role model, and show Respect, why should I... a lowly User, who should worship da mods... show respect
coruscatingintel: You get what you give.
coruscatingintel: Has it occurred to you that perhaps you're the one breaking the circle?
BlackDragon71486: I dont give respect because its not given
BlackDragon71486: I had alot of respect for the mods
BlackDragon71486: they broke it
BlackDragon71486: not vice versa
coruscatingintel: How?
BlackDragon71486: When your friends with the people who become mods, and they say they wont change, they put their respect on their word, they wont change with the >My Words: Fake Power that doesn't amount to anything< and then.... they change a whoooole lot with >My Words: Fake Power that doesn't amount to anything< , you lose respect for them
coruscatingintel: Huh?
BlackDragon71486: Amber... for example, she said on her respect for me and her friendship with people in IRC, that she wouldn't change..... now she's a Tomoyo-person thing, that is farthest from Amber as a real peice of Amber is to a rock
coruscatingintel: You sure it's not all RP persona? Even though her name has changed several times I still see the same ol' Amber.
BlackDragon71486: its OOC most of the time
BlackDragon71486: like storming out of IRC because we disagree with her ideas....
BlackDragon71486: thats not Amber showing... thats Tomoyo
BlackDragon71486: Amber didn't get upset, she just shrugged it off
BlackDragon71486: and im getting this feeling, Duck said it once... that "the Users need the Mods involved in most things, because Users need Mods to clean up after their mistakes, so why risk it...."
BlackDragon71486: theduckofanime: your forgeting one thing james
theduckofanime: EVERYTHING has to be handled by the mods
theduckofanime: because that's how it ends up being
theduckofanime: it's not cause we CHOOSE to have everything handled by us
BlackDragon71486: but your going by the past, "oh they had to come to us last time, they will again, lets handle it, we'll have to anyway'
theduckofanime: but we HAVE to handle it
coruscatingintel: I'd have to see the context of what was being said for me to accurately judge those words.
BlackDragon71486: I was asking for my second chance
BlackDragon71486: the line before all that was
BlackDragon71486: BlackDragon71486: my point is that once this mentor is chosen, its not the MODS, that have to work with the person, its the mentors, its the same way as if you were to get a handmaiden, you had NO say in, just randomly, and it turns out this person thought the exact opposite of everything you did, things would stir, and problems might occur, especially if a certain kind of person got it, you dont understand, because well your just going by what you feel and see, but what happens when you choose the person, gnn, I just think the whole system should be run by mentors, and overlooked by mods, not run and overlooked and controlled in every act by mods..
coruscatingintel: Look man, it seems like you have a lot of pent up anger about this whole thing.
coruscatingintel: Why don't you just let it go?
coruscatingintel: Just do your captions, share your images, RP and stop trying to rail at a system you don't like.
coruscatingintel: And if you want to?
coruscatingintel: Please do it in the right place.
BlackDragon71486: my captions aren't like they used to be, everybody seems to be captioning as of late
coruscatingintel: Private comments to mods, private discussion off board/out of main channel or hte comments room.
coruscatingintel: I'm just asking you to be civil and use some self control.
coruscatingintel: I'm not asking you to reinvent the wheel.
BlackDragon71486: dude, but thats just it, you cant understand where im coming from, you aren't seeing it from my POV, your seeing it from a Fellow-Mods POV... you see things as a mod, you treat things as a mod, so you ACT like a mod, but you aren't seeing things from powerless, non-mod, non-mentor User POV, that sees the problems as they occur
coruscatingintel: Dude I'm not saying you shouldn't speak.
coruscatingintel: Please, by all means, SPEAK!
BlackDragon71486: no your saying limit what I say when I say it
coruscatingintel: Nor am I saying limit it.
coruscatingintel: Haneko's thread was not the right place.
BlackDragon71486: thats more or less saying 'use indoor voice kids'
coruscatingintel: Comments thread?
coruscatingintel: Good spot.
coruscatingintel: Comments room rather.
coruscatingintel: That's what the room is for.
coruscatingintel: Haneko's congratulations thread? Bad spot.
BlackDragon71486: yah, but even then id have to limit myself, id have to use 'indoor voice'
coruscatingintel: If "indoor voice" means "don't act like a disrespectful boob" then maybe you're right.
coruscatingintel: None of us are paid to do this, James.
coruscatingintel: I don't get a check.
BlackDragon71486: no.. im saying the mods seem to be like babysitters, even if they dont have to be
coruscatingintel: And "mod power" is just text on a screen.
BlackDragon71486: but you get upset because my text on a screen doesn't fit with your view on right places
coruscatingintel: But in the last few months we've had to clean up unecessary mess after unecessary mess because some people are upset that we actually have mods or people are upset that because Xia asked people to pipe down for a minute and devoiced the room I mean really.
BlackDragon71486: so if a police officer got in the way of a 150 mile per hour train, is the train supposed to stop immediately because the officier is standing there
BlackDragon71486: the room that night
BlackDragon71486: was going way to fast to hear one person say
BlackDragon71486: pipe down
BlackDragon71486: whether once, twice, or four times
coruscatingintel: That's no excuse.
coruscatingintel: We're there for a reason.
BlackDragon71486: what so even if ya dont see it
BlackDragon71486: your supposed to listen to it
BlackDragon71486: hows that possible
coruscatingintel: Paying attention.
coruscatingintel: That's how it's possible.
BlackDragon71486: a discussion was going on
BlackDragon71486: they were paying attention to the discussion
BlackDragon71486: Xia had been AFK
coruscatingintel: And they should have started paying attnetion to Xia the minute he/she spoke.
coruscatingintel: The ones that noticed should have started to respond.
coruscatingintel: Look this conversation is going nowhere.
BlackDragon71486: she came back said pipe down, thats like... the train metaphor "Cop walks out in front of a train, train dont see it, goes over the cop"
coruscatingintel: Screw the metaphors.
coruscatingintel: Look man, excercise some self control.
coruscatingintel: Learn to control your mouth for your own sake.
coruscatingintel: It's a skill you will need for your life.
coruscatingintel: To maintain employment.
coruscatingintel: To maintain a relationship.
coruscatingintel: To get along with neighbors.
BlackDragon71486: im not employed
coruscatingintel: To attend social events.
BlackDragon71486: I get along with everyone except a few people
coruscatingintel: And yes, for MSF.
coruscatingintel: Learn to know when to bite your tongue just a little and where certain things go and where the don't.
coruscatingintel: That's the bottom line.
coruscatingintel: Forget the mentor stuff, forget being a mod, that's over and done with.
coruscatingintel: You're just a user, try and have fun alright?
coruscatingintel: And remember that we are users to, and every time someone forces us to act it ruins our fun.
coruscatingintel: We're all volunteers, we're here because we like it.
coruscatingintel: Please try to respect that.
BlackDragon71486: hey hey! dont turn this around as me not respecting you guys! I respected you guys, but I made a mistake, and I got branded and marked permanently for it
BlackDragon71486: ill try to watch what I say when I say it... ill try to be more "subtle" with things I say, it'll take changing myself, but if it'll make a better MSFer, ill do it
coruscatingintel: Okay, thank you.
coruscatingintel: We could have skipped an hour and a half of chatter if you just went straight there ;p
BlackDragon71486: I still dont totally agree with myself
BlackDragon71486: so we still would've went through it
coruscatingintel: *faceplants*
BlackDragon71486: another subject, Mods and Users shouldn't have a wedge between them, but they do, and whether its the mods fault, or the Users fault, neither side makes it better, NEITHER side
coruscatingintel: You know what the best way to get rid of that wedge is?
BlackDragon71486: it takes effort from both sides, its not just something the Users can do, or I can do, its something the Mods have to work for too
coruscatingintel: Stop saying "there's a wedge" and just point out individual problems as they happen. We do hammer at each other when required.
BlackDragon71486: yeah but they'll get a second chance to do it all over again
coruscatingintel: Not always.
BlackDragon71486: I can name at least two who are on their third maybe fourth chance
coruscatingintel: Depends on what the violation is, who said they violated what proof exists and the severity of it.
BlackDragon71486: and what relationship ya have with the higher ups
BlackDragon71486: think about it, if I had kissed the mods butts, kept Kijo all that, been the perfect little kiss up, then when I messed up I would've heard "come on James, buddy, lets calm down here, lol *RP startage~~*
coruscatingintel: You know what part of your problem is?
coruscatingintel: And let's be honest here.
coruscatingintel: You stated that you wanted to be a mod and you hid it intentionally.
coruscatingintel: People detected it.
coruscatingintel: Now let's do a little thinking here.
BlackDragon71486: I didn't hide
BlackDragon71486: the problem was I was vocal about it
coruscatingintel: <_< don't make me quote your LJ post.
BlackDragon71486: THEN i tried hiding it
coruscatingintel: See, there you go.
coruscatingintel: You hid it, people figured it out pretty fast.
coruscatingintel: Now.
BlackDragon71486: but people knew by the time
coruscatingintel: If you realize someone is hiding something form you, how much do you trust that person?
BlackDragon71486: and I didn't try hiding it very hard
coruscatingintel: Yes but that's besides the point, add messing up on top of deliberate, noticeable deceipt and you don't have proper ground for turst.
coruscatingintel: Alright, looks, we need to stop.
coruscatingintel: I've said my piece.
BlackDragon71486: yeah, you've got your mind set, you aint ever gonna trust me again, despite anything I do from this day forward, so im not going to press it
BlackDragon71486: the only problem is
BlackDragon71486: you never knew me
BlackDragon71486: you never talked to me
BlackDragon71486: and now your mind is made up about me
coruscatingintel: Has it occurred to you that I know you by your actions and by the words presented her?
coruscatingintel: here.
BlackDragon71486: I just said, you dont know me
BlackDragon71486: I didn't say you did
BlackDragon71486: and you dont
coruscatingintel: You underestimate the meaning of your words and actions if you don't think someone can't know you by them.
BlackDragon71486: im in a mood
BlackDragon71486: a rare mood
BlackDragon71486: im feeling spunky and ready to jump at anything
BlackDragon71486: im a good mood, and ready to fight
coruscatingintel: Well feel your spunk all you want.
BlackDragon71486: you get me on a normal day
BlackDragon71486: and im a good conversationalist
BlackDragon71486: but you got me tonight
BlackDragon71486: so your mind is made-up
coruscatingintel: You can hide behind "you don't know me" to protect yourself all you want, but that won't cause people to change their mind about you or make them fail to notice what you have made obvious.
BlackDragon71486: isn't it, you cant trust me
BlackDragon71486: you never will
BlackDragon71486: you never did
coruscatingintel: I'm stopping this conversation before you force me to respond in a derogatory manner. Do not bother responding, you will be ignored. You can try again some other time if you want. Do not, however, bring the same game to me again, you will get handled the same way.
BlackDragon71486: heh fine...